OMC Guru's---Dhadley, Walleyehead, anyone....

Dhadley

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Re: OMC Guru's---Dhadley, Walleyehead, anyone....

Far, youre correct about the pin limiting the "down" or "in" travel. It has nothing to do with the "up" or "out" distance. However, if the pin is out away from the transom it will cause more bow rise on holeshot because the motor cant get further "in" or "down". I usually remove the pin all together. After all, it rides on the trim rams anyway.
 

Basscat 1

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Re: OMC Guru's---Dhadley, Walleyehead, anyone....

The tilt cylinder lifts the engine fully, while both cylinder act together during the trim range of the unit(approximately 1-13/16" of piston travel) resulting in a usable pitch change in outboard motor angle from 0-15 degrees, with a force capable of overcoming full engine thrust.<br />The reduced mechanical advantage of the single cylinder range of operation keeps the motor lower unit from tilting out of the water except at very low (1600 or lower RPM) engine speeds.<br /><br />To answer your question, no it will not give you more tilt, but yes it will limit how far you can trim it down, which will affect engine performance.<br />Again, The further the tilt pin is in (closest to the transom) the quicker the hole shot, but the top end will suffer. Moving the tilt pin out usually helps the top end, but the hole shot may be a little slower.<br /><br />Dang it, I cant type fast enough. :D <br /><br />Dhadley, what do you think of tysidor's fuel symptoms?
 

farginicehole

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Re: OMC Guru's---Dhadley, Walleyehead, anyone....

Okay, thanks for the explanation. I understand how moving it closer to the transom would allow the motor to tilt down further when in the "full down tilt" position, but I guess I still don't understand how it would affect top-end performance as it doesn't affect how far UP you can trim your motor. Maybe I'm just missing something. . . . story of my life! LOL
 

Dhadley

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Re: OMC Guru's---Dhadley, Walleyehead, anyone....

I cant believe I type faster than anyone BC! :D <br /><br />I've been following along and I think youre on the right track. All the symptoms seem to point to the fuel pumps. I was thinking about the anti-siphon valve but the same thing happened with a portable tank.
 

farginicehole

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Re: OMC Guru's---Dhadley, Walleyehead, anyone....

And apparently I type faster than I think! I didn't even see your reply about the trim pins, Dhadley!
 

tysidor

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Re: OMC Guru's---Dhadley, Walleyehead, anyone....

Well I just ordered fuel pump rebuild kits for both my upper and lower fuel pumps. They told me they should be here by Thursday or Friday. As soon as I get them I will put them in and let everyone know the results. <br /><br />Dhadley -- Nice to see you join in. Your wealth of knowledge is well known around here. I would appreciate any ideas you have.<br /><br />I currently don't even have an anti-siphon valve in my fuel system. I have heard of way to many people having problems with them so I just left mine out when I rebuilt the fuel system.
 

Dhadley

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Re: OMC Guru's---Dhadley, Walleyehead, anyone....

Just a thought here -- what do your pumps look like? As the sides come straight up are the slopes straight (like a roof on a house) or do they come in and then up?
 

tysidor

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Re: OMC Guru's---Dhadley, Walleyehead, anyone....

Dhadley -- I don't know off the top of my head I will look when I get home tonight.
 

OBJ

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Re: OMC Guru's---Dhadley, Walleyehead, anyone....

Just to add a little....the fuel pumps have different PN's and have superceded to different part numbers. Not real sure but I think the bottom pump was the stronger of the two pumps? Maybe someone substituted one of the pumps with the wrong pump?<br /><br />FYI....new pump PN's....upper is 388554 and the bottom is 438559. Original PN's...upper - 388554 and lower - 388555.
 

Dhadley

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Re: OMC Guru's---Dhadley, Walleyehead, anyone....

If they have that little curve right above the screw then that might be the old style. I would suggest getting the new ones with the superceeded numbers.
 

tysidor

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Re: OMC Guru's---Dhadley, Walleyehead, anyone....

Well I just picked up my new fuel pumps. They are the newer style ones that you are talking about Dhadley. I will try to put them on tonight if I get a chance. <br /><br />I just talked to a friend who has an electric fuel pump sitting around that he use to have on his older sleekcraft. He told me I could give it a try to see if it helps. First, I will try the new pumps and see if that fixes the problem. <br /><br />Basscat 1 -- I did try bypassing the Water/fuel separator and nothing changed.
 

tysidor

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Re: OMC Guru's---Dhadley, Walleyehead, anyone....

I installed the new fuel pumps. The diaphrams in the old ones were pretty stretched out, but there was no punctures or holes. I went out and ran it and they made no difference at WOT. It did seem a little more responsive, especially out of the hole. <br /><br />The weird thing is that I tried pumping the bulb again and it didn't help nearly as much this time. It also got hard after a couple pumps and I couldn't pump anymore. Does this mean that now the fuel pumps are pumping enough, but the carbs aren't allowing them to push it through?<br /><br />What should be my next step. I am getting frustrated and ready to just quit on this engine. What could I be missing?
 

jy118lfd

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Re: OMC Guru's---Dhadley, Walleyehead, anyone....

I would do a leakdown test. I have a 150 and it won,t go above 5000 to 5200 with any prop I went through everything you have done and I did a leakdown test and most cylinders were at 20% leakdown My compression is at 90 psi across the board but leakdown was high. I am going to hone and re-ring but not till later as it runs great but is down on power. I have ran it about 60 hrs this year and put 350 plus miles and it has not carboned up although I decarb it at 50 hrs and run carbonfree in the tank. It sounds like you have done everything I went through You can check my post on "max rpms on my crossflow center console"
 

tysidor

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Re: OMC Guru's---Dhadley, Walleyehead, anyone....

Jon Yahr -- Thanks for advice on a leakdown test. Unfortunately I don't know how to do this and I am not sure if any of the local marinas would. The local wrenches seem to have now knowledge whatsoever. It is actually kind of frustrating. <br /><br />I put a 14 1/4 X 15 Stainless Rapture on. I couldn't help but to buy it brand new for a $125 off of Iboats. It did improve my holeshot, but still not even close to what it should be. I am also now only reaching 4300-4500 rpms with it. I wonder why my rpms dropped? Any idea's anyone?<br /><br />I am still convinced this motor should run. Does anyone still think it could be the carbs even though the jets are clean and clear? Do I need to have them completely overhauled or I am just wasting my time and money at this point? <br /><br />What about a ring job if that is the problem. How much this that typically cost? <br /><br />Sorry for all of the questions. I really appreciate the help.
 

Basscat 1

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Re: OMC Guru's---Dhadley, Walleyehead, anyone....

Ok, lets regroup. With out reading this entire thread again, lets go over some basic checks again.<br />1. Make sure the butterflies on the carbs are open all the way and the timing linkage is up against the stop at wot. You can do this of course with the engine off at home.<br />2. After doing the Joe Reeves method of wot did you go back and verify the timing with the boat in the water? This is necessary. After setting mine, when I verified it in the water, my wot was 26 when it needed to be 28. Double check your wot timing. You can do this by backing the boat into the lake, but leave it on the trailor. You will need two people. Hook up the timing light to #1 cylinder and have somebody start the engine and shift it into gear at wot, and check the timing again.<br />3. Double check the fuel system. Make sure all the lines and fittings are tight and not leaking.<br />4. Finally, changing the props is probably not going to help your engine problem. Keep turning over stones, until you turn over the right one.
 

jy118lfd

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Re: OMC Guru's---Dhadley, Walleyehead, anyone....

You can buy a leakdown tester at any auto parts store or tool store and what you do is bring the piston up to tdc for the cylinder you are checking there are two gauges and the first one reads pressure and the second one reads % of leakdown. You must follow the directions that come with the tester because they all have different ways of steeing it to zero. Then you plug it into the adapter in the spark plug hole and read the % of leakdown. It shoule be less than 15% on all cylinders.<br /><br />My 150 runs 5000 rpm on a 19ft aquasport with a 14 3/4 17 viper prop. My compression is at 85 to 90 psi on all cylinders but leakdown is above 20% so what now happens is that when the motor fires the cylinder the blowby (products of combustion getting by the rings) does three things It first lowers the compression in the cylinder but and most important for a 2 stroke it contaminates and lowers the primary compression with lower primary compression the air and fuel does not enter the combustion chamber with as much force so less gets in the chamber and that means less exhaust gets out plus the primary compression is already contaminated. So in all less power is made. The more rpms you turn the les time there is for all this to happen So I feel this acts like a rev limiter cause On my engine I have run a 15 pitch prop and did not gain any rpm. I have also put about 70 hrs on it this year and have not noticed any loss in performance<br /><br /><br />The other check you can make is to have the motor run with a test wheel in a tank. This will let you know what you already know is that the motor does not make the power it should. But the leakdown test will tell you why
 

Basscat 1

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Re: OMC Guru's---Dhadley, Walleyehead, anyone....

Are you having an idle problem? Read this segment about compression checking on outboard engines. Pay particular attention to the highlighted sentences. We have already determined that he can reach 5500 rpms by squeezing the primer bulb and tilting the motor.<br />I personally dont think blowby is the culprit. I standfast its a fuel related/ combination of things problem.<br />__________________________________________________________________________________________________<br /><br />Compression is the heart of an outboard. If one or more cylinders are damaged due to improper timing settings, lean fuel condition, overheating, or stuck rings from carbon buildup, your outboard is about to become history. Does a compression test alone always determine that my outboard is in good shape? Suprisingly the answer is "no". A good compression reading does not completely determine internal conditions. To correctly diagnose condition of pistons, rings, and cylinders, a leakdown test should also be performed. Using a quality leakdown tester, each cylinder should not show more than 10% loss. If any do, there is certain to be an internal problem in the making. For example, a compression reading of 120 lbs would be viewed upon as a good cylinder by the average person. This may or may not be the case. If a leakdown test of the same cylinder indicates say...20% to 25% or more leakage, it would be a good bet that excessive wear, scored cylinder, the cylinder scratched, and/or the rings stuck or damaged in a way that does not show up with a simple compression check. In any case, wear or damage is present and advisedly requires attention before further damage and/or exceptionally poor performance and efficiency results. Most common effects from diagnosis of excessive leakdown would be in the idle range of the motor. If all other motor functions check out attempting to diagnose an idle problem, then its a good chance that blowby is the culprit. It is advised that leakdown tests should be performed at the beginning of the compression stroke (rings just above exhaust port opening, which is the critical point), and NOT at TDC. Make sure you have flywheel locked down securely when doing a leakdown test. If you try to hold the motor from turning with a socket and breaker bar, you are putting yourself in a dangerous position should the breaker bar slip from your hand. Purchase a compression gauge and leakdown tester to go in your boat's toolbox and check cylinders a couple of times a year to ensure there is nothing unusual going on internally. Using proper grade of gasoline and outboard oil is essential to preventing internal problems. Proper winterization procedures will also do wonders to prolong the life of the internals of your outboard. If compression check shows more than 15 lbs difference on any given cylinder from highest reading of other cylinder/s, or if leakdown test shows excessive loss, you have a problem in the making! DO NOT continue running the motor until problem is diagnosed and repaired! It could result in causing much more internal damage than you already have.
 

tysidor

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Re: OMC Guru's---Dhadley, Walleyehead, anyone....

I guess I can try to do a leakdown test. Do you need a piston stop, or TDC stop? I know none of the auto parts stores stock them. <br /><br />As far as my idle is concerned. It is idleing fine, but my idle timing screw is turned upto 750rpm in gear. If I set it much lower it doesn't start up as well. Where I have it currently set it starts everytime. I do know that 650-700 rpm in gear is recommended, but I don't think I am excessivly high. <br /><br />The one idleing issue I am having is every now and then after the engine has been turned off anywhere from 1 minute to 1 hou--I will start it back up and then when I give it throttle it will load up and die. This problem has been happening more often and the only things that seem to solve it is to let it fast idle for a couple minutes, or just leave it in gear for a few minutes and slowly try to give it more throttle. It is weird because once it clears out it will take off. As I stated earlier this happened alot more the last time I was out. I did change from 91 octance to 87 octane based on some fuel posts I read. Could this have anything to do with it?<br /><br />Thanks again everyone. I will attempt to do a leakdown test to get some more answers.
 

Basscat 1

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Re: OMC Guru's---Dhadley, Walleyehead, anyone....

tysidor, dont miss understand me. I should have read a little more before posting the above paragraph. It was a copy and paste job. My point was that if you had an idle problem (which you dont) then you should do a leak down test. However, in your case I dont think its necessary.<br />I am not suggesting you do a leakdown test as it takes a special gage setup to do it.<br />Go back over the items I listed in the "ok lets regroup" post first.
 
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