OMC Cobra Sterndrive lubricant

tommays

Admiral
Joined
Jul 4, 2004
Messages
6,768
k<br />you need to talk to the seller and try to resolve this as everthing you say can only end up very badly for you if its true<br /><br />if the drive was run with the oil that low it will be badly damaged if you were luckely it was not refilled correctly and not run after that time<br /><br />tommays
 

tknudsen

Cadet
Joined
Nov 19, 2004
Messages
12
OMC Cobra Sterndrive lubricant

I just recently purchased a 1992 Seaswirl 190 SWL Cuddy Cabin with an 1992 OMC Cobra sterndrive from MarineMax in littleton, CO. A mechanic did all the prep tasks prior to delivery to me. Time and weather would not permit a sea trial but they did perform a trailer runup in their yard. The technician winterized the engine and sterndrive and I took delivery that day. One week later I decided to change the engine oil and filter for winter. I also checked the level of the sterndrive and I was horrified to find that nothing registured on the top fill plug dip stick. I used a 6" screwdriver and still no lubricant. I drained the sterndrive and only 5 cups of lubricant came out. The sterndrive has a capacity of 2 quarts or 8 cups of lubricant. It appears that the sterndrive has been running 3 cups low and now I am wondering about the upper gear case unit. I removed the top plate and the gears look normal except a little dark area where the gears mesh. The drained fluid was black so I will assume that the previous owenr did not have the drive serviced recently. Now I am wondering where the 3 cups of lubricatn went and is my upper gear case damaged because of the missing 3 cups of lubricant :confused: .
 

seahorse5

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jan 24, 2002
Messages
4,698
Re: OMC Cobra Sterndrive lubricant

Those Cobra drives have to be filled from the middle screw plug to purge all the air out of the sterndrive. If someone, untrained usually, fills from the bottom drain plug, it will trap air and the oil level will fall below the upper gears as the outdrive is run. Have the top cover removed and closely inspect the gears and bearings.
 

Lou C

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
11,869
Re: OMC Cobra Sterndrive lubricant

When they say middle plug they mean the one near the cavitation plate on the lower unit, not the plug or screw you will see in the center of the side of the upper unit.<br />A lot of Cobras have been messed up by people not knowing this or looking it up in the manual. It should take about 2 qts to fill it.
 

tknudsen

Cadet
Joined
Nov 19, 2004
Messages
12
Re: OMC Cobra Sterndrive lubricant

I tried to get MarineMax to a least teardown the sterndrive for an inspection. No way would they commit to a teardown. According to their technician, the gear oil was at the proper level when he inspected the sterndrive. This is the same technician that sent me on my way home with no brake fluid in the trailer surge brake system and a bad tire with the steel cord showing on the boat trailer. What it boiled down to, its was my word against theirs. For right now, I plan to pressure test the unit and fix any leaks and then refill with the proper lubricant and hope for the best. Based on this experience, I think this will be my last boat.
 

lakelivin

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Aug 19, 2004
Messages
1,172
Re: OMC Cobra Sterndrive lubricant

http://www.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=24;t=008398#000000 <br /><br />Knudsen, check out the above thread regarding a problem I had with my Cobra sterndrive. Basically, the shop changed the oil and left it about the same abount low as yours with disastrous results. I'm pretty sure it was because they filled it from the drain pllug instead of the fill plug.<br /><br />Like tommays said, hopefully it was changed, refilled incorrectly, but not run after that time. Although that doesn't sound promising since you say the oil was black. Did you happen to notice any particles in the oil? <br /><br />With mine I'm pretty sure the upper bearings went and tore up the gearset (gearset teeth were mangled, easily visible). One possibility that might explain your findings: the major damage to mine happened after driving it about 6 or 7 miles (it started screaming all at once, probably gears being torn up by bearing pieces). Maybe they misfilled yours and drove it enough to burn the oil black from underlubrication by not so much as to reach the point of brealdown like mine did. Do you know if the technician changed the gearoil as part of the winterization? If so, the abouve explaination might make sense. I'd sure want someone (probably not the shop you bought it from)to check out the upper drive, especially the upper bearings. <br /><br />Two things I learned from my experience: one is that some shops will cover their a** no matter what, even if it means irrationally ignoring all of the evidence (hopefully a small proportion, sounds like there are some really stand up mechanics that post in iboats). Second is that if you own an OMC Cobra you really need to do the work on the drive yourself or make sure you've got an experienced OMC repair guy to do it for you.<br /><br />By the way, my Cobra is 15 years old with on problems at all before this incident.<br /><br />Please note that I'm no expert (quite the opposite), almost all of what I say is speculation based on my specific experience and feedback from knowledgeable guys on this forum and at the 2nd repair shop I took my boat to. <br /><br />Must read link for Cobra owners:<br /> http://www.funkopolis.com:8080/~stuart/cobra/
 

lakelivin

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Aug 19, 2004
Messages
1,172
Re: OMC Cobra Sterndrive lubricant

By the way, if your drive was low from improper filling, of course it would register as full on the dipstick; until the air bubble worked it's way to the top, that is. <br /><br />Ask the technician if he filled the drive from the lower drain hole. The guys who messed mine up didn't even know there is a middle fill hole for Cobras and readily admitted that they filled it from the bottom (which is the correct way to do it for Mercruisers).<br /><br />And don't give up on boating, just find a good shop you can trust.
 

tknudsen

Cadet
Joined
Nov 19, 2004
Messages
12
Re: OMC Cobra Sterndrive lubricant

MarineMax did not change the sterndrive lubricant since in his words, he is a Mercuriser dealer and they don't stock OMC lubricants. So whoever filled it last time probably used the wrong fill hole. Since the selling dealer will not step up to the responsiblity, I am thinking of having the local marine repair shop split the two gear cases and inspect the upper bearings and gears. If there is something wrong with the upper, I would like to have it fixed before it ruins the lower gear case assembly.<br /><br />BTY LakeLivin <br /><br />When you upper gear unit failed, did you replace both gear assemblies or just the upper unit?
 

seahorse5

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jan 24, 2002
Messages
4,698
Re: OMC Cobra Sterndrive lubricant

Knudsen,<br /><br />You only have to level the outdrive then remove the 4 bolts on the top cover. The gears are right there, highly visible. Inspect the inside of the teeth for marks, blueing, or chips.<br /><br />When the sterndrive is run low on oil, such as when someone fills it wrong, the gear teeth start to "flare out" from the heat and the load from no lubrication. Amazingly, most of the time the bearings look OK because they only need a mist of lubrication, where the gear teeth need a "bath".
 

tknudsen

Cadet
Joined
Nov 19, 2004
Messages
12
Re: OMC Cobra Sterndrive lubricant

Hi Seahorse<br /><br />I removed the top cove plate and the upper gears look OK. The is only a slight dark discoloration where the gears make contact. The local mechanic said that the normal failure mode is for the bearing on the vertical shaft to fail first and then the gears fail. Once that happens, the upper gear housing is trashed. As I see it right now, I have two options. Pressure test the whole stern drive for a leak and if no leak is found, refill to proper level and continue boating. The second option is to just replace all the bearing and seals in the upper gear housing since the gears appear OK. Right now I can replace the bearings and seals for $250. If I let the upper gear housing go to complete failure, I will be looking at a $1,500 expense for a rebuilt upper gear housing. <br /><br />When you say "if the gears look OK, then more than likely the bearing are OK". Is this statement based on actual Cobra sterndrive experience? Then, I kind of lean toward the option number one of refilling and continue boating.
 

lakelivin

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Aug 19, 2004
Messages
1,172
Re: OMC Cobra Sterndrive lubricant

Knudsen, I just replaced the upper unit. And we caught it before the upper gear housing was trashed (would have been just a matter of time). <br /><br />"MarineMax did not change the sterndrive lubricant since in his words, he is a Mercuriser dealer and they don't stock OMC lubricants." LOL, my local Wal Mart stocks hi-vis gear oil suitable for my Cobra.<br /><br />My opinion FWIW (and I must say I'm less informed than most posting here, so it may not be worth much) would be to go ahead and replace the bearings. The hit for a new upper unit is so steep I wouldn't want to take the risk.
 

tknudsen

Cadet
Joined
Nov 19, 2004
Messages
12
Re: OMC Cobra Sterndrive lubricant

Hi Lakeliven<br /><br />The $250 cost to replace just the bearings and seals is for parts only. I am just not sure if I am up to tearing down the upper gear assy. I have all the tools and a 20 ton arbor press but not sure what else I need. I ordered a factory service manual last week and that should answer my questions. The local marine mechanic said that if he does the bearings and seal replacement, the cost would be around $650 which would include parts. This option is still cheaper than $1,500 for a remanufactured upper gear unit.
 

RedRangerVIP

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Sep 11, 2004
Messages
189
Re: OMC Cobra Sterndrive lubricant

Knudsen,<br /> Do me a favor. If you find a good OMC tech down there, post on here. I too have a Cobra setup and am looking for a decent OMC tech. Been to MarineMax before, wasn't very impressed.
 

lakelivin

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Aug 19, 2004
Messages
1,172
Re: OMC Cobra Sterndrive lubricant

Knudsen, I have no take on what the labor would be, I'm sure you're much more technically knowledgeable than me. For example, I know if you replace the gears you have to do some precise shimming which I understand can be a real pain in the a**. If that would be required to replace the bearings I'm guessing it would be a big job. Here is where input from some of the iboats OMC gurus would be invaluable. <br /><br />One thing I would suggest is making sure you read the Stuart Hastings site I linked above. He has some tips on dealing with Cobras that you probably won't find elsewhere. He also lists some of the specialized tools OMC suggests (and a work around for a couple of them). <br /><br />Good Luck!
 

tknudsen

Cadet
Joined
Nov 19, 2004
Messages
12
Re: OMC Cobra Sterndrive lubricant

Hi Lakelivin<br /><br />The Stuart Hastings website is a valuable source of Cobra information and I printed everything for a permanent recored. I also did a copy and past of the information into a MS Word document.<br /><br />Hey RedRangerVIP<br /><br />I live in Pagosa Springs and there are very few marine dealerships around here because the boating season is only 6 months long. A person has a better chance of finding a mechanic for snowmobiles and ATV's here in this part of the state. I found an older gentleman who is a one-man shop down by Lake Navajo but he is only open during the boating season.
 

RedRangerVIP

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Sep 11, 2004
Messages
189
Re: OMC Cobra Sterndrive lubricant

Knudsen,<br /> About the same situation here in Salida. Closest to me is Gunnison for any Marine Tech help period.<br /> How much snow you got over that way? We got 22" here in Poncha. That's more than all last year! By the way welcome to Iboats. There is alot of great help here to be had from the members and the archives. :)
 

seahorse5

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jan 24, 2002
Messages
4,698
Re: OMC Cobra Sterndrive lubricant

Go to a Johnson/Evinrude dealer and use the Ultra HPF gear lube. It is a lot better than the HiVis and is recommended for your outdrive. <br /><br />Replacing the upper bearings is a job for a well trained and experienced OMC tech as you have to use a multitude of expensive special tools and gauges, plus set the preload on the bearings. Wait until you read the service manual and you will see what I mean.
 

lakelivin

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Aug 19, 2004
Messages
1,172
Re: OMC Cobra Sterndrive lubricant

Hey Knudsen, <br /><br />Yeah, I did the same with Stuart's website info in case it ever disappears. It's such a pleasant surprise to find something like that, reminds me of the feeling I had as a kid when I 'd find a quarter in the pay phone slot. Actually, this site was also a great find for me as well. <br /><br />There is something fishy about your oil level and what the sales tech told you. Since he didn't change the outdrive oil, either he's not being honest about checking the level and it being full, or you somehow lost 24 ozs between the time he checked it and the time you did. And if he did check it, wouldn't he have noted the black color and passed on to you that you better look at it? hmmm...<br /><br />Seems like you're looking at a cost/ risk question right now. <br /><br />Question to SEAHORSE: if the bearings do go, is it likely that Knudsen will hear it and be able to shut the boat down before tearing up the gear case housing or damaging something in the lower gearcase? And, if Knudsen did have to replace the upper unit with a rebuilt one is it something he could handle without special tools or previous experience? (looking to get labor factor into the equation) <br /><br />With mine the outdrive started to scream, a VERY loud whining noise. No doubt that something was wrong. But that was with the oil level still down 24 oz. Once they refilled it (and before doing anything to fix it) there was a whining noise that hadn't been there before, but it was much more subdued. Unless you were familiar with the sound of the drive before the damage, one might not realize the new whine was abnormal. I put between 15 and 16 hours on the boat between the time the bearings went and when the other shop pulled the drive and realized the damage. Gears shot but no damage yet to the upper gearcase housing or anything in the lower gearcase. But the experienced shop that diagnosed the damage indicated that it would have just been a matter of time until I ruined the gearcase housing if I had kept driving it.<br /><br />Seems like the answer to my question to Seahorse might factor into your decision. If you pressure test & thats ok, are you likely looking at: <br />a)$600 now vs. risk of $1,200 for rebuilt upper unit that you can put in OR<br />b)$600 now vs. risk of $1,500 for rebuilt upper unit with core charge that you can put in OR<br />c) a) or b) plus labor charges OR<br />d)$600 now vs risk of cost of entire rebuit outdrive (with or without labor) <br /><br />Tough question, and sorry you got mixed up with that shop. I know how frustrating it is to deal with, shall we say, a 'less than fully scrupulus' dealer. From now on I'm either doing stuff myself or taking my boat to a repair shop 1.5 hours away that I trust.
 

tknudsen

Cadet
Joined
Nov 19, 2004
Messages
12
Re: OMC Cobra Sterndrive lubricant

I received my OMC factory service manual today and after reading the section on the upper gear housing, I decided that a bearing and seal replacement is beyond my capabilites. I am a retired electrical engineer and a licensed aircraft mechanic but my problem is all the special tools and pullers that are required.<br />If I decide that bearings and seals are the way to go, then I need to find a mechanic that can handle the job or even one that wants to work on an OMC Cobra sterndrive.
 

tknudsen

Cadet
Joined
Nov 19, 2004
Messages
12
Re: OMC Cobra Sterndrive lubricant

I don't know how to post a photo on this forum but here is a link to a photo of my OMC upper gear housing. The gears are not chipped or broken but they are dark where the gears contact. Would one of the experts on this forum tell me if this is a normal wear pattern or a result of being 3 cups of lubricant low?<br /><br /> http://home.centurytel.net/knudsen/PB230002.JPG
 
Top