Ok, Just wish me luck...

[CCrew]

Just dug into the floor tonight... Everything they say about Bilgeliners is indeed true. It's an 87 Capri 1950. Built like a piece of junk. <br /><br />Plywood is not fastened to the stringers from the factory, nor is the deck coated underneath. Plywood deck is so waterlogged that you can squeeze it and get water. Foam's all saturated. Havent't exposed the stringers yet, but from the rest of the wonderful sights, I'm sure they're bad. Battens are toast. Transom actually appears solid, and I had holesawed it to run the DF transducer, and it's a solid plug, so I may be lucky. Looks like my winter project is indeed the boat, balanced with the basement my wife wants finished. At least that's not rotten!<br /><br />As to the construction, looks like plywood deck just laid in the boat and glassed around the edges. Rest of the structure just weakly hit with a chopper gun, with all areas that are out of eyesight when assembled not coated at all. Interesting fact that although there were only a couple of small "soft" areas, it was only where there were voids in the foam. Foam's saturated though, and the rest of the deck is junk, although securely supported by the underlying foam. I have to give them credit, they did do a heck of a job gluing the carpet down. <br /><br />So forgive me if I'll be asking a lot of questions in the months to come, problem I have is that I really like the lines on this boat, and it has a solid 5.7, and a just rebuilt Cobra O/D. New factory upholstery skins came with it when I bought it. So, at least there's something to work with. And it's paid for. <br /><br />Yeah, I know. When I'm done, it's still a Bilgeliner, but it'll be built better than it ever was from the day it was new... I'll post pictures as I progress. Thank god for a heated garage!<br /><br />Wish me luck!<br /><br />-Roger

 

[JasonJ]

Re: Ok, Just wish me luck...

Don't worry about the fact that it is a Bayliner. When you are done, you'll have a sweet boat. I like the way Bayliners look, if I ever come across one really cheap, I'll get it and rebuilt it the way it needs to be. You may not get a huge return moneywise on the investment, but if you get several seasons of good use out of it, thats all you need. Too many people get hung up on resale value. When you only have a few grand in it, that is not an issue. Now, if a person pays too much, and THEN gets to rebuild it, thats when it is not cool. Anyway, post lots o' pics....

 

[CCrew]

Re: Ok, Just wish me luck...

Thanks Jason...<br /><br />Actually I think I probably already have too much in it. It wasn't supposed to have all these "issues". By the time I'm done though, I'll have more than the boat's worth in it I'm sure, but much less than it would cost to replace.<br /><br />Question though.. What's the best tool to use to cut all the decking/glass/seat structures etc. out? I have enough power and air tools to open a shop, but was just wondering from your experience or others what makes the most efficient work of it. Where it's bonded to the hull it's quite secure!<br /><br />Thanks again!<br />Roger

 

[flashback]

Re: Ok, Just wish me luck...

I have found that a 4and half inch angle grinder with cutoff wheels works about as good as anything, some folks use chain saws and I guess if you do it all the time a chain saw may be faster but I have found that the angle grinder is controllable.......good luck

 

[JasonJ]

Re: Ok, Just wish me luck...

I used my trusty 4 inch angle grinder with metal cutoff wheel for the close in detail cuts, and used my circular saw to cut out the major areas like the floor. I also used the circular saw set at the right depth to cut the transom into sections and popped the sections out. If you have an air grinder that will work even better because it is smaller and lighter, giving you even more control. I used a grinding wheel to rough up the surfaces that were to be glassed to.

 

[CCrew]

Re: Ok, Just wish me luck...

Thanks Jason..<br /><br />I have a 4 1/2" angle grinder, an air die grinder and a air cut off grinder, couple of air sanders as well as a couple of dremels if it needs to get real accurate. I did a search and had seen a bunch of references to chain saws, that's just a little too "brute force" for my tastes! <br /><br />I've taken a few looks at it today, measuring and thinking about the plan of attack, and getting some pics before I start ripping too much out. Really think it would be less of a hassle if I just pop the motor out, just to get it out of my way, but I'm still undecided about that one. Lets me right at the transom and back end of the stringers if they indeed are going to have to come out, and if they're bad I'm sure the motor bed is also. Looks easy enough, could probably have the motor out inside of an hour or so <br /><br />Thanks again for the response! Looking at your project has been a great help, good work!<br />Roger

 

[Link]

Re: Ok, Just wish me luck...

Hey Roger<br />Look at what JasonJ is telling you. Yea Bayliner is a PO(S)tuff JB Boat! So what! When you are finished with it. It will be worth hanging on to for a few years... I owne a quallity boat.. but with all the money we have put into it.. we will never get the money back.. NP we will just enjoy it for the next few years!

 

[JasonJ]

Re: Ok, Just wish me luck...

I recommend removing the motor. If you have to rebuild the floor or stringers, the hull could develop an interesting shape with all that engine weight in there but no floor/stringers to hold the hull shape. The engine comes out quite easily, and you will probably find that the beds need to be replaced anyway. Before I tore anything apart I took careful measurements of everything. Once I had all the floor, stringers, and transom out, the hull shell, while quite strong, had no support and there was a lot of movement. I had to pay very careful attention to the bottom shape to make sure no bows or hooks developed, and I also had to make sure the hull didn't spread any. I managed to keep everything true. I also had my upper deck off, which removes a lot of structure as well. If you do not have to remove the upper deck, that will help a lot in keeping the boat from twisting or warping. Good luck, and post a pic or ten....

 

[CCrew]

Re: Ok, Just wish me luck...

Ok, lets try this...<br /><br />

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[CCrew]

Re: Ok, Just wish me luck...

Here's some more..<br /><br />You can see how the foam saturation has blown even some of the good wood apart:<br />

<br />Here's the rebuilt outdrive ready for the rest of the boat :-( Boat had obviously not been winterixed properly at some point in it's life, as the upper case had two small cracks in it.<br />

 

[Link]

Re: Ok, Just wish me luck...

Roger<br />Great pics.. you already know the short commings of Bayliner from the inside out! Now let me tell you some really great things about your boat! It was a brand new hull design when I went into the marine business. The deep V in the front if you slow down a bit in chop gives you a great ride! When not in chop it planes out real nice and wont blow out in tight corners. And last it was designed to give a decent wake for sking<br />Add that to the great looking outside hull design and you have one great package.. <br /><br />IMO only:<br />90% of the hard work is already done! IE: The outside of the boat looks great!<br /><br />All of the inside stuff that JasonJ and the rest of the guys can walk you through can be covered with carpet so if your like me and not good at finish work it doesn"t matter <br /><br />On the stern drive I know on the older mercs they had a hollow cavity with a real small drain hole that would clog up with salt then split the case. We just used to grind them out, clean then fill in with marine tex and put a 1/4" hole above it.<br /><br />I don't know about yours but I'm sure there are plenty of people here who can give you the correct answers.<br />I'm sure glad it's you dealing with the fiberglass and not me <br /><br />Luck to ya.. when finished your going to have a real nice boat!<br /><br />Link

 

[JasonJ]

Re: Ok, Just wish me luck...

The outside does look pretty good. Of course, the outsides almost always do look good. Just remember, Bayliner went through a period of time where they did not use as much layering in the hull layup as they should have, and I am fairly sure your boat falls in that production period. I would probably prep the entire inner surface of the hull bottom when you are getting ready to glass in stringers, and lay your glass so it ends up glassing from the top of the stringers down and across to the next stringers and up to the top of those next stringers. That way by the time you are done, you have added a layer or two (or more) of glass on the entire hull bottom. Then you could foam all the stringer voids completely, giving even more strength and floatation, as well as protection from getting holed below the waterline.

 

[CCrew]

Re: Ok, Just wish me luck...

Thanks Link and Jason...<br /><br />Gutted the rest of the interior out this afternoon, and have the motor all detatched, I'll probably pull it Sunday, if not before. I'm trying to resist the urge to start cutting, as I'd like the motor out and bagged before I start making abrasive dust!<br /><br />Jury is still out on the stringers, as I haven't gotten to them to get a good look. Floor goes solid at about the windshield, so I'm torn if I want to pull that area out just yet. If the stringers are shot, I'll have to. <br /><br />Boat only has two stringers in it, and three battens. Stringers are about 4" wide and run the length of the boat from the width of both sides of the motor bed all the way into the bow. Floor just lays on top, and is glassed at the edges. Looks like the stringers are fully glassed in, and the deck just sits on it. No fastening that I can see. I'll probably have to cut the floor out, then whack some of the glass off the tops of the stringers to see how solid they are. The deck plywood comes apart with about the texture and consistency of pulled pork.. just kneeling on the floor will give you wet knees. <br /><br />Jason, I think you're 100% correct about the hull thickness. I sure hope the bottom is thicker than it is at the gunnels, because there it's only about 2 layers thick.. The keel looks like it has a 6" wide reinforcement the length of the boat, and that's about all.<br /><br />-Roger

 

[BillP]

Re: Ok, Just wish me luck...

I cut one of those outboard version BL19's up with a chain saw and it had humongus stringers. I think they were Alaskan cedar (yellow looking wood). The stingers were way oversized for that rig. Actually, the hull was built pretty good (compared to other productions boats I've seen) but the floors were shot and hardware just screwed in without nuts, backing plates or bedding .

 

[CCrew]

Re: Ok, Just wish me luck...

"hardware just screwed in without nuts, backing plates or bedding"<br /><br />Exactly! That seems to be the weakest link. I had gone out and taken a closer look at the hull. The bottom is actually quite stout, tapering in thickness only as it gets to the gunwales. <br /><br />What I had to chuckle at was the way that they did some things.. For instance, where the upper meets the lower in the transom where it would be visible, they used bolts, large washers, and nylok nuts. As soon as the area is under carpet, they switched to rivets, with no backing plates. Almost as if if the consumer opened the engine hatch, saw that, and said "this is well made" and where you couldn't see, it was as cheap as possible. <br /><br />I especially like where panels meet at angles, there are actually some places where you realize that once you cut the chopper glass away, you can actually get fingers between.. so much for "fitted" . And the hardware? What a joke! poke a hole, screw a screw. <br /><br />I do think I know where the worst of it came from though... If you look a the one pic above of the starboard side of the inside rear... you see a scum line on the transom. This and other indicators make it look like at some point in this boats life it was sank up to about the sparkplugs. Or, filled with water while in the trailer. May be the explanation for the repower also. <br /><br />Like the title says.. Wish me luck! <br /><br />-Roger

 

[Realgun]

Re: Ok, Just wish me luck...

OK CCrew Got me a Bayliner from MN, live in NM. <br />1400 Miles 1 way but was 1000 dollars and Boats here are either good shape or new. So price here is over $3000 for most any boat. My floor is trash in the front and ok in rear but am going to rip it all out. My question to you and others is-<br />The floor under the instrument pods is it hard to remove the shelves? and will I have to do this to get to the floor? <br /><br />Took the boat out after ripping the seats and carpet out people kind freaked when the saw the interior but the boat handles well and leaks a tiny amount from the front area right where you beach it. My thinking is the transoms good, the stringers are good. I just need to redo the floor and the middle of the hull. I am thinking of carbon fiber repair to the leak area and maybe down the middle of the hull. Any body have a hull saver installed?

 

[CCrew]

Re: Ok, Just wish me luck...

Realgun, <br /><br />The shelf under the instrument pod and the passenger side of the dash is actually an extension of the front bow area panel, and not separate pieces of their own. To replace them actually means tearing the front bow seating area apart. The bow seating back cushions screw into the front of the panel, then there's a bulkhead panel that has to come out, then the whole front bow top panel can come out. This may give you an idea, but it's not the best of pics. The right side as you look at the pic is already disassembled. Hope that helps, and congrats! <br /><br />Roger<br />

 

[Realgun]

Re: Ok, Just wish me luck...

Thanks Ccrew. I was looking at the floor? I guess you can call it that but not when you step on it and hit the bilge. My front area is ok except the top area. Darn I will need to replace that. What surprises me is there are three compartments up front but only the front one has a drain. What cheap $*@$*&@! Begins with B ends in S. MY page