oddjobs troll-Kurds say Thanks

oddjob

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Those of you who believe Bush lied dont bother with the article. WMD's are mentioned. <br /><br /><br />web page
 

JB

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Re: oddjobs troll-Kurds say Thanks

Good stuff, OJ. Thanks. :) <br /><br />I particularly like the part about the mass media only telling part. . .the bad part. . .about what is happening there.<br /><br />That's a bullseye if I ever saw one.
 

alden135

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Re: oddjobs troll-Kurds say Thanks

Wow, don't let that news get out. It goes against what the media likes to jam down our throats.
 

Wimperdink

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Re: oddjobs troll-Kurds say Thanks

very cool... positive media is severely lacking here
 

rodbolt

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Re: oddjobs troll-Kurds say Thanks

while I supported the liberation and assistance to the kurds, its a good thing, go back in history a bit more and find out why saddam gassed and bombed them and why the kurds dont and will not trust the US again.<br /> rather than jump on the current media bandwagon, I dare anyone on this board to come up with the reasons for the above statements.<br /> if you actually think the Kurds and the Sauds are our friends your smoking something.<br /> those folks seem to have long memories.
 

mrbscott19

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Re: oddjobs troll-Kurds say Thanks

I know the answers. But I'm sure its really all just liberal revisionist history. ;)
 

jtexas

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Re: oddjobs troll-Kurds say Thanks

Two things I don't understand:<br />1. (for oddjob) What's the connection between the question of whether "Bush lied" and the article.<br /><br />2. (for rodbolt) What's the relevance of Sadam's reasons for gassing and bombing a civilian population, I mean, under what circumstances would you defend that behavior.
 

rodbolt

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Re: oddjobs troll-Kurds say Thanks

Jtexas<br /> I dont try to defend it. it was reprehinsible, similar to our napalm attacks on villiages in north vietnam. however at the US military's urging and with US assurance that we would "get their backs" the kurds attack saddam from the north in the 80's. we failed to "get their back" and hundreds died, then as a retalitory measuer saddams forces gassed the rebels,insurgents,traitors or whatever you wish to call them today. they rebbelled and saddam retaliated. but they wont forget how they were lead astray and abandonded by the US policy makers of the time. right now all is well but not for long. people like to postulate about saddam gassing his own people, the kurds and kurdistan happen to be inside the Iraqi borders but by no means are Iraqi's or saddams people. never were nor will be. they just happen to be there.it was another chapter in our sordid history of doing what was profitable and politically expedient at the time regardless of life or death.<br />most folks never read the 2 sentances the american history books devote to it.
 

oddjob

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Re: oddjobs troll-Kurds say Thanks

Hello JTex,
1. (for oddjob) What's the connection between the question of whether "Bush lied" and the article
Among other atrocities, Hussein ordered the use of chemical weapons against the Kurdish village of Halabja in 1988, killing an estimated 5,000 Kurds, a majority of which were women and children. <br /><br />Chemical weapons fall into the catagory of WMD's. Saddam had them and Bush and congress didnt lie. :) <br /><br /><br />Rodbolt, I dont understand your question. Please rephrase or splain it better.. :)
 

Laddies

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Re: oddjobs troll-Kurds say Thanks

oddjob, I bet you thought the liberals and dumbacrats would agree with this :D :D :D :D Great job---Bob
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: oddjobs troll-Kurds say Thanks

Rodbolt, I hear ya! Where did Saddy get the gas from? He didn't get it from 'Uncle Ronny'& 'G.H.W. did he? Now that would be ironic.....Did I miss something or is 'Kurdistan not part of Iraq anymore?....JK
 

jtexas

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Re: oddjobs troll-Kurds say Thanks

Originally posted by oddjob:<br /> Hello JTex,
1. (for oddjob) What's the connection between the question of whether "Bush lied" and the article
Among other atrocities, Hussein ordered the use of chemical weapons against the Kurdish village of Halabja in 1988, killing an estimated 5,000 Kurds, a majority of which were women and children. <br /><br />Chemical weapons fall into the catagory of WMD's. Saddam had them and Bush and congress didnt lie. :) <br /><br /><br />
Okay, let's see:<br />1988 - Iraq uses chemical weapons.<br />2003 - Relying on military intelligence gathered from 15-year-old newspapers, the U.S. invades Iraq.
 

oddjob

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Re: oddjobs troll-Kurds say Thanks

Clinton talked about existance.....forget it....Clinton said nearly verbatim in 1998 in an address. Well documented....notice I can say ....(well documented) after I make a statemnet countering your point. Luxuries I suppose.
 

jtexas

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Re: oddjobs troll-Kurds say Thanks

okay, let's see:<br />1998 - Clinton quoted as saying Iraq has chemical weapons.<br />2003 - Relying on military intelligence gathered from a 5 year old speech by a former president, the U.S. invades Iraq.
 

TilliamWe

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Re: oddjobs troll-Kurds say Thanks

j, we went in there for lots of reasons. But all Saddam had to do was live up to the UN resolutions, and show us he had nothing. So he left us in the position of relying on old intelligence...<br />Ah heck, who cares, he needed whippin & I am glad we went. Who else thinks Iran next, then Syria?! And, cause I know you will say it, I registered with Selective Service when I was 18, and 15 years later, all they have to is call. My only questions will be, "where do you need me to report, and how soon?"
 

rodbolt

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Re: oddjobs troll-Kurds say Thanks

telliamwe<br /> I registered at 18 myself, however I got tired of waiting and signed on in 87. as far as the Kurds being Iraqis that just assinine. shows exactly how much a student of history one tries to be. <br /> its like saying apache indian is a cherokkee as well as a "white" man cause they happened to be inside the same geographical border at birth. our nation is just over 200 years old. they have mosques older than that. most of the present day middle east was carved up and divided by the west with no regaurd to indiginous peoples that had been in the area for centuries.<br /> wanna bet on if custer had had wille P or Napalm or even a bit of sarin to place in his artilley shells he would have solved the indian problem by the mid 1800"s ?<br /> good thing Napalm and white phosphorous air burts cannot be conssidered a WMD. but then again nerve agent in an artillery shell is not either, thats why we still have them.<br /> top be considered a WMD it has to also have a delivery system capeable of almost an inter continent range not just a 10 mile range.<br /> while I am glad the soap boxers are waxing eloquent about whuppin ares and gettin jiggy with it has anyone considered a few facts.<br /> fact is we are there with pissy poor planning and not so good leadership. fact 2 is there is no honerable way out now. fact 3 this war costs about 2 billion or so per WEEK. fact 4 Reagan did not end the USSR the Afghan war was the straw that finally broke the economic back of the bear. <br /> question 1, if after we pull out, and pull we will eventually, and the chinese decide do do in Iran what we did in Iraq and with the same justification and excuses what do we do ? question 2 how many years is acceptable to stay in Iraq knowing as soon as we pull out they region will go back to fights between the ****e, Kurds and sunni's as well as some Bathists tossed in ?<br /> and go back to fighting they will, they have been doing it several centuries now, when not fighting someone else.<br /> the 500 tons of uranium had been there ,under lock and seal since the 90's its not nor could ever be WMD. the chemical and pesticides were supplied by the west, thats how we knew what he had and where it was. <br /><br /> I was watching a retired general speak today and he is concerned that at the present rate the military is sustainable for about 18 more months, then we will either have to go to 18 month rotations or a selective service. also the present equipment is rapidly wearing out and the cost is estimated to go from 2 billion per week to just over 3 billion per week. <br /> so I ask again, who and how to we withdraw honorably ?
 

jtexas

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Re: oddjobs troll-Kurds say Thanks

now rodbolt, it wasn't really napalm, more like nearly napalm, and the latest Pentagon statement says that white phosphorus was only used on military personnel. In spite of This statement from the U.S. Department of State website (usinfo.state.gov): <br /><br />
The fighting in Fallujah, Iraq has led to a number of widespread myths including false charges that the United States is using chemical weapons such napalm and poison gas. None of these allegations are true.
12/09/04
 

TilliamWe

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Re: oddjobs troll-Kurds say Thanks

fact 2 is there is no honerable way out now.
So why not have total victory then?<br /><br />Bring on the Chinese. They have their own problems to deal with, and we are already stopping them in North Korea. If the Chinese were so dangerous & formidable, they would have conquered the world already. <br />So I see your "facts" and "questions" and say, "so what"?
 

rodbolt

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Re: oddjobs troll-Kurds say Thanks

telliam<br /> just how do you have a "total" victory? can you tell me who can surrender? who do we negotiate the peace treaty with? and if you actually think we could win a war with china I would like some of what your smoking :) :) .an all out full scale war with china would be devestating world wide, not to mention to our economy now. but lets just disscuss if in 5 years the chinese invade Iran on the premise of a pre-emptive strike due to WMD's. what do we do? do we allow the chinese to control the Iranian oil feilds? I mean thats why the west toppled the last democratically elected govt of Iran. and the world see's and saw how well that worked out.<br /> but I guess so what is a good party line now.<br /> I just hope your children one day dont have to answer up to it just as I hope my son and daughter dont.<br /> so tell us your fine plan for total victory? maybe it can be used in the war on poverty and the war on drugs? if you publish it I hear the nobel peace prize is about large enugh to retire on.<br /><br /> me, I see no way of "total" victory. and I cant see a method of honerable withdrawl, at best a withdrawel similar to saigon. seems the south veitnamese did manage to hang on another 2 years before total collapse so it gave the US a bit of political credibilty if ya spin it just right.<br /> had that area wished for a democracy like we have odds are they would have had it a few thousand years ago. and no amount of attempting to beat it into them with a stick is likly to alter their mind set.<br /> how long can our economy and military forces support a protracted conflict? takes 12-18 months to train the average weapons control enlisted personel. takes 6 months or so just to adequately train a ground pounder.<br /> but its nice to see the standard party ansewr to a question. so what? bring it on, mission accomplished.<br /><br /> Jtexas<br /> nope it was not napalm, was MK-77<br /> made with jet fuel not gasoline as its more enviromentaly safe. had the reporters asked if mk-77 was used and not napalm maybe the answer would have been a bit different.<br /> however the results on the populace and infastructure is about the same with either one.<br /> and airburst wille P is just nasty, I think I would prefer sarin. airburst willie P has a tendancy to shower large areas with a chemical that is rather nasty. seems to turn into a flaming dust that cannot be extinguised readily and wont quit burning through flesh until it either burns out or goes on through. a bit of willy P fact.<br /> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphorus <br /> if this aint an artillery fired WMD I cant describe many more.
 
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