Now the shiites are joining the fray

rolmops

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I just read this article in the New York Times about Shi-ites in the south of Iraq hitting the streets armed and ready to chase the occupation forces out of Iraq.<br />It much reminded me of lebanon in the early eighties,when everybody, for their own reasons wanted to chase israeli and american forces out of lebanon.It was the beginning of a fanatical campaign that made us think of the sunni moslems as quite tame in comparison to martyrhood seeking shi-ite moslems.<br />Maybe the time has come for us to get out of Iraq and let them kill each other without us being in the way.
 

Toad2001

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Re: Now the shiites are joining the fray

The Shi'a Muslim population is 60-65%.
 

Fly Rod

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Re: Now the shiites are joining the fray

As a good "OLE DARN MARINE CHESTY PULLER !!!!" coming from the rank of private to being a well liked "GENERAL " once said " Put my "Marines on line abreast of each other and we will march to the sound of their bugle and we will have this war over in thirty days " !!!!!! :) ;) :cool:
 

Fly Rod

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Re: Now the shiites are joining the fray

:) Remember the six day war????<br /><br />If we the United States had let the Jewish State continue we wouldn't have this problem today !!!!
 

Bondo

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Re: Now the shiites are joining the fray

Fly Rod,<br />I think You're Exactly Right...........<br /><br />We need to take on an "Israeli" attitude..............<br />Send in the Tanks,+ Choppers................<br />Knock on the Door,<br />With a Missile........... ;)
 

JoeW

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Re: Now the shiites are joining the fray

Remember folks, we're hearing only the bad stuff, and remember from where it comes.
 

oddjob

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Re: Now the shiites are joining the fray

Maybe the time has come for us to get out of Iraq and let them kill each other without us being in the way. <br />
In the first place, you aint in Iraq, and thats a good thing....
 

rolmops

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Re: Now the shiites are joining the fray

I do not have an opinion on whether we should be there or not.The point is that we are there and soon we will be between two groups that hate each other,and the only thing that keeps them from each other's throat is our presence.So they go after our throat.<br />We went in there to remove a danger to the USA.Right now there is a totally different situation. The people who mostly suffered under Sadam's terror have shown their own fanatical hatred for anything western. Can we install a democracy there? Which group can we support? The pro sadam sunnis? The anti American shi-ites? The minority kurds?<br />This question has nothing to do with being liberal or conservative,or pointing fingers at each other.What we need here is some real inventive thought.Right now we are in a pickle.<br /><br />Flyrod,The reason why the six day war ended at the Suez Canal was because Israel did not want to control huge arab population centers.I often think that, in the first Gulf war, Bush the elder made the same decision for that very reason.<br />Rabbit,you asked a "mildly controversial question" a few threads ago.The answer is that during the yom kippur war, the USA, through an airbridge greatly helped Israel in resupplying the airforce which was badly hurt by the Russian SAM(surface air missiles).The Israeli airforce returned the favor a few years later by bombing and destroying a nuclear reactor in Iraq where nuclear weapons were being developed. Imagine sadam with nuclear weapons..<br />Oddjob did you ever ask yourself who armed and trained the kurdish resistance to Sadam Hussein?
 

oddjob

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Re: Now the shiites are joining the fray

Oddjob did you ever ask yourself who armed and trained the kurdish resistance to Sadam Hussein?<br />
You got me Rolmops..refresh me..wasn't is us(US)?
 

rolmops

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Re: Now the shiites are joining the fray

Hello Oddjob<br />It was the same guys that bombed the nuclear reactor.I spent a few years in that army.
 

oddjob

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Re: Now the shiites are joining the fray

I know that you have/did from earlier posts, and I'm confused with your perspective occasionally. Maybe I am misunderstanding you, but you seem to lean towards leaving the fundalmentalists (sp) to have their day undeterred. I don't get it. Doesn't it inrage you when people people speak of Israel as if they attacked the muslims in the first place?
 

rolmops

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Re: Now the shiites are joining the fray

Hello Oddjob<br />I am very cynical about the entire operation ,not because I disagree with it, but because I simply do not believe that we can impose a solution which is based on western thought and culture,on a people that is not a nation as we perceive it.The only reason why there is a country called Iraq is because the <br />british sliced a piece off Turkey in this shape.<br />The allegiance of these peoples is to their village,their valley and to their local chieftain.Whoever happens to be president is the guy whose tribe supresses the other tribes.The only thing they hate more than each other is outsiders.The only thing that will temporarily unite them is their dislike for outsiders.<br />For them death in battle or suicide attack was their fate a thousand years before they were born,because it was written in the book of life.<br />It will take a moslem imposed peace to pacify that country.I am mostly convinced that America is not ruthless enough to be succesful in this situation.<br />I hope that this will explain my opinion a bit more
 

Fly Rod

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Re: Now the shiites are joining the fray

:) And even if they hate each other they offer you 20 virgins in the "hereafter" if you blow yourself up!!!! :rolleyes:
 

oddjob

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Re: Now the shiites are joining the fray

I understand Rolmops, But when you say<br /><br />
Maybe the time has come for us to get out of Iraq and let them kill each other without us being in the way. <br />
However unintentional, I believe you embolden the weakness of our resolve so I get confused. I no that bacause I dont always explain my point on this forum folks may percieve me as simple minded and ruthless. I would rather offer no debate to the faint of heart.<br /><br />Reminds me of another one liner my father told me when I worked for him:<br /><br />Son!.....I don't want the labor pains (from me)....I just the baby. :)
 

Fly Rod

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Re: Now the shiites are joining the fray

:) Pull back the troops !!!!<br />Send in "LITTLE BOY" and "FAT MAN"!!!! :D <br />And they will meet "ALLAH" :D :D
 

SCO

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Re: Now the shiites are joining the fray

Possibly if the people and not the warlords get the money from the countrys economy, then maybe the people will rule. I'm jaded too though. We cant just be the most ruthless warlord and if thats what it takes, then I fear we won't succeed either. If the Shiites dont support the effort, there will be no reason to stay there as we cant impose a democracy unless the great majority of people want it. It will take time(years) to see if it was the right thing to do to go into( strike that, STAY IN) Iraq. The decision to go was certainly the correct one, but whether or not it works out is unknown to date. BEst to support rather than undermine the efforts of the Commander in Chief and Troops. Our infighting may be the factor that causes the effort to fail by boosting the morale of the enemy. Certainly worked for Spain. Of course we are free to voice dissent, but we pay a dear price for that freedom. Requires some intelligence and morality on the part of the dissenters.
 

Elmer Fudge

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Re: Now the shiites are joining the fray

Posted by Rolmops.<br /> I am mostly convinced that America is not ruthless enough to be succesful in this situation.<br />--------------------------------------------------<br /><br />I could'nt agree more. I am now begining to understand why in that part of the world there are so many dictatorships,it seems that only an iron hand approach and by that i mean total subjugation is necessary to keep the peace.<br />America and Americans will never do as such, we just do not have that type of stomach.
 

gaugeguy

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Re: Now the shiites are joining the fray

Tough to fight a war with the "Politically Correct kids white gloves" on :mad:
 

wvit100

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Re: Now the shiites are joining the fray

Anyone who actually believes that bombing and killing a city full of arabs will do anything to help our goal of ending terrorism is sadly mistaken. We are now percieved as occupiers in Iraq and are not welcome there. Our original goal was to fight Saddam, now your saying our goal is to fight the whole country until they like us? It will never work that way.
 

mellowyellow

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Re: Now the shiites are joining the fray

SCO is getting close...<br />"Possibly if the people and not the warlords get the money <br />from the countrys economy, then maybe the people will rule."<br />this is THE reason why factions are trying to flex<br />their muscles!<br />I'm telling you, it's not really about muslims vs.<br />us, it's the warlords and clerics who will lose<br />power with a democratic Iraq and they won't go<br />down without a fight!<br />yes, there are radical Shiit's too... but again,<br />it's more the exception and not the rule IMHO.<br /><br />it's really all about power and control and religion<br />is the perfect conduit :rolleyes:
 
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