Not Shocking Anymore, Another Day in the US.

NYMINUTE

Captain
Joined
Oct 6, 2003
Messages
3,298
CNN) -- A Minnesota Indian reservation is trying to overcome "shock and disbelief" as it looks for reasons why a high school student went on a shooting rampage Monday, killing nine people and wounding as many as 13 others before killing himself.<br /><br />Police said the student killed two of his grandparents, then went to his high school, killing seven people there.<br /><br />FBI Special Agent Paul McCabe said the dead include a female teacher, a male security officer and four students at Red Lake High School. <br /><br />"We believe that one of those students is the shooter," McCabe said Monday.<br /><br />The FBI office in Minneapolis, Minnesota, later said two more wounded students had died. <br /><br />Floyd Jourdain, chairman of the Red Lake Ojibwa Nation, said he "knew practically all the people involved" in the shootings on the Red Lake Indian Reservation in northern Minnesota. The community is dealing with "shock and disbelief," he said.<br /><br />"This is a small community," he said. "There will not be one soul who isn't touched by this tragedy here in Red Lake."<br /><br />"It still hasn't sunk in," he said. <br /><br />Jourdain would not comment further on the case, saying the FBI had scheduled an 11 a.m. ET news conference.<br /><br />McCabe said Monday that the FBI thought the shooter was acting alone.<br /><br />The slain students were shot in one room of the school, he said.<br /><br />"Apparently, he walked down the hallway shooting and then he entered a classroom, he shot several students and a teacher, then himself," said Roman Stately, with the Red Lake Fire Department, who arrived at the high school moments after the shootings Monday.<br /><br />Authorities discovered about an hour later that the boy had shot and killed his grandmother and grandfather, a veteran of the police force, Stately told KARE-TV.<br /><br />Stately said the boy used his grandfather's police-issued weapon in the school rampage.<br /><br />Witness Sondra Hegstrom described the gunman grinning and waving, according to The Pioneer of nearby Bemidji, Minnesota. <br /><br />"I looked him in the eye and ran in the room, and that's when I hid," she told the newspaper.<br /><br />Teacher Diane Schwanz told The Pioneer that the shooter tried to break through the door to her classroom. <br /><br />"I just got on the floor and called the cops," Schwanz told the paper. "I was still just half-believing it." <br /><br />The shootings occurred about 3 p.m. (4 p.m. ET) in Red Lake High, a school of 300 students that is on a sovereign Indian reservation near the Canadian border about 240 miles north of the Twin Cities.<br /><br />Tribal authorities closed the reservation after the shootings, The Associated Press reported.<br /><br />Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty expressed his condolences.<br /><br />"We ask Minnesotans to help comfort the families and friends of the victims who are suffering unimaginable pain by extending prayers and expressions of support," his office said in a statement.
 

kenimpzoom

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jul 13, 2002
Messages
4,807
Re: Not Shocking Anymore, Another Day in the US.

The boy obviously had serious mental issues.<br /><br />What a terrible incident.<br /><br />Ken
 

neumanns

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Mar 1, 2003
Messages
1,926
Re: Not Shocking Anymore, Another Day in the US.

Sad......<br /><br /> I protest your title though. I do find it shocking, but leaves little to be said of such an incident. The first time it happens it is such a shocker it leaves people talking about it, the next time it happens there is little left to be said other than to shake ones head in disbelief that such an event has happened yet again.<br /><br />Is the deafining silence due to desensitization, I don't think so...Just disbelief.
 

kenimpzoom

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jul 13, 2002
Messages
4,807
Re: Not Shocking Anymore, Another Day in the US.

Not only disbelief, but also despair.<br /><br />There is no way to prevent these types of situations.<br /><br />Ken
 

cmyers_uk

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 4, 2004
Messages
760
Re: Not Shocking Anymore, Another Day in the US.

Unfortunately this is the price that is paid to allow the sensible majority the right to have arms. Its very sad, whats more you cant see how to prevent it from happening again. My thoughts go out to the families concerned, including the parents of the agressor you struggle to understand losing your child but losing it after he has murdered your parents and those children must break your heart.
 

NYMINUTE

Captain
Joined
Oct 6, 2003
Messages
3,298
Re: Not Shocking Anymore, Another Day in the US.

These tragedies are all too common in this country. We preach tolerence and peace all over the globe, but this is what we see at home. Personally I am NOT shocked. Saddened, most certainly, but not shocked. Maybe it is the constant flow of bad or hard to take news I receive that desensitizes me. The bigger issue for me is I have no way to stop these events. None of us do. I have 3 grandchildren in a rural school, I used to think they were safe.. THINK AGAIN.
 

SpinnerBait_Nut

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 25, 2002
Messages
17,651
Re: Not Shocking Anymore, Another Day in the US.

I'm with you NYM, I have 6 and wonder all the time when it's going to happen at one of our local schools.<br /><br />It's really scary.
 

KaGee

Admiral
Joined
Aug 14, 2004
Messages
7,069
Re: Not Shocking Anymore, Another Day in the US.

Here we go with the "anti-gun" crap again.<br /><br />If it wasn't a gun, it would have been something else. The kid was deeply disturbed and the community failed to see it and help him.
 

SpinnerBait_Nut

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 25, 2002
Messages
17,651
Re: Not Shocking Anymore, Another Day in the US.

Come on KG, you have to be worried about it happening where you live also.<br /><br />Everyone does, that don't mean we are against guns, come on.
 

Fly Rod

Commander
Joined
Oct 31, 2002
Messages
2,622
Re: Not Shocking Anymore, Another Day in the US.

If we all carried guns we'd be all equall except for those that carry small capacity clips!!!<br /><br />Mr. Myers, people in the UK who live in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones at this "Great Country of the United States"!!!! Unless I misinterpreded your 1st two sentences,of which I take, that you feel that we should ban guns and these shootings wouldn't happen!!!!<br /><br />In the UK where guns are basically banned and Bobbies don't carry guns unless getting special permission,why would there be mass murderes in the UK????<br /><br />1987- Michael Ryan, slaughtred 16 people including his mother & dog and wounded 14 others in Hungerford!!!!<br /><br />1996- Thomas Hamilton, systimatically slaughtered 16 kids & a teacher, because he lost his job of leading the boy scouts!!!!<br /><br />2004- Richard Hicks 1985 Jeremy Bamber,etc. etc. etc.!!!!!!!
 

SoulWinner

Commander
Joined
Apr 16, 2002
Messages
2,423
Re: Not Shocking Anymore, Another Day in the US.

Once upon a time when people were free to raise thier children without the help of "a villiage" and dicipline them according to traditional methods, this stuff didn't happen with the regularity that it does today.
 

Fly Rod

Commander
Joined
Oct 31, 2002
Messages
2,622
Re: Not Shocking Anymore, Another Day in the US.

:) SW I difinitly agree with your reply!!!<br /><br />Amen ;) :cool:
 

SpinnerBait_Nut

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 25, 2002
Messages
17,651
Re: Not Shocking Anymore, Another Day in the US.

Spot on SW, when I was growing up, if you needed a whoopin, you got one. No one said anything cause they knew I deserved it.<br /><br />No boy, not nowadays, you look at a kid wrong and the CPS people are on you like stink on ...........
 

Boomyal

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Aug 16, 2003
Messages
12,072
Re: Not Shocking Anymore, Another Day in the US.

Originally posted by Chris Myers:<br /> Unfortunately this is the price that is paid to allow the sensible majority the right to have arms. Its very sad, whats more you cant see how to prevent it from happening again. My thoughts go out to the families concerned, including the parents of the agressor you struggle to understand losing your child but losing it after he has murdered your parents and those children must break your heart.
Spoken like a true liberal Cousin! Demonize the object and penalize everyone instead of ferreting out the true cause. This country has existed with more guns per capita than perhaps anywhere in the world. It has only been in recent times that these kinds of incidents have begun to accelerate.<br /><br />By your logic, the guns have had a change of heart and now must be the root of the problem? End of problem. Outlaw the guns and we can continue to bury our heads in the sand and move on to more important issues like supporting abortion.
 

SpinnerBait_Nut

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 25, 2002
Messages
17,651
Re: Not Shocking Anymore, Another Day in the US.

Updated: 1:19 p.m. ET March 22, 2005BEMIDJI, Minn. - A troubling profile of the teenager who shot dead nine people emerged on Tuesday — one of a Native American who described himself as a "NativeNazi" and who other students said was regularly picked on for his odd behavior.<br /><br />The teenager, identified as 17-year-old Jeff Weise, stormed into Red Lake High School on Monday afternoon, shooting dead a guard, a teacher and five students before apparently killing himself. At least 14 other students and teachers were wounded in the nation’s worst school shooting since the Columbine massacre in 1999 that killed 13 people.<br /><br />Before the school shootings, Weise shot dead his grandfather and his grandfather's girlfriend at the home he shared with them.<br /><br />Weise had been placed in the school’s Homebound program for some violation of policy, said school board member Kathryn Beaulieu. Students in that program stay at home and are tutored by a traveling teacher. Beaulieu said she didn’t know what Weise’s violation was, and wouldn’t be allowed to reveal it if she did. <br /><br />Student Sondra Hegstrom, 17, told the Minneapolis Star Tribune that Weise was into goth culture, wore "a big old black trench coat," drew pictures of skeletons, listened to heavy metal music and "talked about death all the time." <br /><br />A couple of his friends had said he was suicidal, she added, and they said they were watching a movie once when he said, "That would be cool if I shot up the school."<br /><br />"They didn't think anything of it," Hegstrom said, but "he got terrorized a lot" by others who called him names.<br /><br />Relatives of Weise told the St. Paul Pioneer Press that Weise's father committed suicide four years ago, and his mother lives in a Minneapolis nursing home because she suffered brain injuries in a car accident, the relatives said.
 

gaugeguy

Captain
Joined
Jun 4, 2003
Messages
3,564
Re: Not Shocking Anymore, Another Day in the US.

Originally posted by SBN:<br /> Weise was into goth culture, wore "a big old black trench coat," drew pictures of skeletons, listened to heavy metal music and "talked about death all the time." <br /><br />A couple of his friends had said he was suicidal, she added, and they said they were watching a movie once when he said, "That would be cool if I shot up the school."
Jeez, doesn't this sound familiar?
 

62_Kiwi

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Jan 20, 2002
Messages
1,159
Re: Not Shocking Anymore, Another Day in the US.

I don't believe that tightening gun laws will achieve much in preventing tragedies like this happening. <br /><br />Laws only control the actions of people who abide by laws. Most of the people who cause problems with guns do not fall into this category.<br /><br />Guns are very restricted in NZ but we still have our share of crimes and tragedies involving them. Just a couple of weeks ago a woman was kidnapped at gunpoint in my neighbourhood. Yesterday I heard a radio report of a local murder trial in which the murderer used a sub machine gun to shoot someone in the back from the window of his car...(edit: Earlier that day, the same murderer used a samori sword to chop the hands off two women).<br /><br />This latest tragedy is very sad :(
 

NYMINUTE

Captain
Joined
Oct 6, 2003
Messages
3,298
Re: Not Shocking Anymore, Another Day in the US.

Originally posted by KaGee:<br /> Here we go with the "anti-gun" crap again.<br /><br />If it wasn't a gun, it would have been something else. The kid was deeply disturbed and the community failed to see it and help him.
Kagee, it isn't about the guns from my perspective, it is about the things we (as a country) Don't Do. We spend entirely too much time on political correctness, and "feelings" and no time at all instilling some fear in these kids. Issues (BS) some disipline at home and school are needed. Gun, poison, knife, whatever. Until we drive in stakes and boundaries, it will go on. Now they won't even face a death penalty for murder.
 

Mark42

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Messages
9,334
Re: Not Shocking Anymore, Another Day in the US.

Weise was into goth culture, wore "a big old black trench coat," drew pictures of skeletons, listened to heavy metal music and "talked about death all the time." <br /><br />A couple of his friends had said he was suicidal, she added, and they said they were watching a movie once when he said, "That would be cool if I shot up the school."
Geez, how blind do they have to be? The kid was a walking billboard for a slaughter about to happen. If he was in my kids school, everyone would have known about his plans well in advance. <br /><br />I think a lot of the blame has to go to the kids and teachers who failed to report his behavior and intervene early. Bet they will be a tad more proactive next time.
 

cmyers_uk

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 4, 2004
Messages
760
Re: Not Shocking Anymore, Another Day in the US.

Unless Im mistaken I didnt say anything anti gun. <br /><br />I think you need to be sensible and not so defensive the facts are simple to use an example that happened here recently. A mental health patient got out of a hospital and stabbed two people to death before he was overpowered. Had he had access to guns he could have killed alot more. The gun doesnt do the killing persay its the person who pulls the trigger, however the <br />gun does by design make him more lethal. To quote kagee he may have used something else, true but the chances to get away from / survive reduce with the effectiveness of the weapon. If I own a M60 and walk into a mall I am likely to kill more people than with a crossbow however both are deadly, should I be able to own a M60 thats a whole different story.<br /><br />Flyrod, a little information on both the cases.<br /><br />
1987- Michael Ryan, slaughtred 16 people including his mother & dog and wounded 14 others in Hungerford!!!!
This caused the ban, they were legally held guns.<br /><br />The massacre led to the Firearms (Amendment) Act, 1988, which banned the ownership of semi-automatic centre-fire rifles and restricted the use of other firearms with a capacity of more than two rounds.<br /><br /><br />
1996- Thomas Hamilton, systimatically slaughtered 16 kids & a teacher, because he lost his job of leading the boy scouts!!!!
Again his guns were legally held under Scotish law.<br /><br /> http://www.archive.official-documents.co.uk/document/scottish/dunblane/dun06a.htm <br /><br />
Jeremy Bamber
It was a .22 rifle which are still perfectly legal.<br /><br /><br />So inconclusion for the record. I own two guns legally, I dont think they should be banned. However by having guns in general circulation you give somebody who wants to kill on mass the ability to do it easily. There are still 3M illegal guns in the UK and lots of legally held ones so we will still have incidents. <br /><br />I standby my comments, it is incidents such as these that are the price we pay to allow the majority of sensible people to own firearms. Very sad. Sorry about the long post,
 
Top