No start condition again!!

FreeBeeTony

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May 15, 2002
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As someone suggested, it looks like my low compression condition has returned.
Boat hasn't been started in 2wks, went down to the boat yesterday to pull it out to fix my trim ram problem and it would not start.
I noticed that my heat exchanger appeared empty..........
Is it possible I have bad head gaskets and the AF is leaking into the cylinders?
My plan is to get it running (hopefully) and pull it out of the water.
Will need to pressurize the cooling system and see if it holds.
 

tlewis1

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Oct 9, 2012
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112
When you say no start the motor just turns over and does not catch or you get nothing happening when the key is turned?

Sounds like you may have a few issues. Low compression could be caused by a bad head gasket which yes while the engine is running could leak AF into the cylinders. I don't believe it would continue to drain the overfill reservoir though while sitting for 2 weeks not running.
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
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May 19, 2004
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27,468
Could be a leaking elbow gasket. When they leak the fluid ends up in a cylinder. But as it's a closed system, putting a radiator pressure test jig on will be quite simple.
 

Lou C

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If that's a concern you might want to pull all the plugs and disable the ignition and crank it over with a remote starter switch. Then watch for antifreeze coming out of the plug holes. It could be a head gasket or the gasket between the riser and manifold....
If there's AF or even worse salt water in the cyls you want it out right now....
 
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FreeBeeTony

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Pulled all the plugs last night......all seemed fouled in one way or another.
Compression was low again 90-120lbs.........
Added oil in all cylinders, re-installed plugs hand tight and turned over a few times and letting it soak.........supposed to rain later......
Plan on removing existing plugs, turning over engine w/o any plugs to clear the cylinders, replacing plugs and hopefully it starts.

Have a feeling the loss of coolant has something to do w/ this phenomenon,
Checked the oil and the level is fine......a little low if anything.

When I get it pulled for the season my plan is to pressure test the cooling system, remove the risers and manifolds and probably the heads.
 

Lou C

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No AF or water in cyls?
​When my head gaskets blew at the end of last summer, the first sign of something wrong was it not wanting to start and this engine was always an easy starter. Sometimes if you have a little water in a cyl it will turn the center electrode of the plug an orange color.
 

FreeBeeTony

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Removed the plugs last night, blew-out the cylinders, and replaced the plugs.
Going down to the boat soon, I expect it to start.........
​Will report back later.
 

FreeBeeTony

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Still no start, pulled boat out of the water........got a tow to the ramp.
May start another thread on troubleshooting before tear down..
 

Bondo

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Apr 17, 2002
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Ayuh,...... Work the basics Tony,.... Fuel, Fire, 'n Compression at the right Time,.....
 

Lou C

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When you say my head gaskets blew..........are you saying both blew at the same time?

​They may have, its hard to know for sure. What happened was I had a bad overheat back in '7/2013. Pulled the boat out and replaced the melted flappers, exhaust hoses were not burned but changed them anyway. Did a compression test and results were normal believe it or not. Ran it the rest of '13, 14 and '15. It ran fine, no odd noises...then at the end of August '16 it did not want to start. When it did start it ran rough for the first few minutes. I'm thinking tune up or fuel. I look at all the possibilities but nothing really comes up. Then for the heck of it, I check for water in the cyls, and water shoots out of #2. I looked at all the plugs and #2 and #1's center electrodes were orange, so I knew I had water in #1 also but not enough for it to spray out. I drained the block and had it towed in. Did some more diagnostics in the driveway, believe it or not, comp test results were basically normal. 145-175. I rigged up a way to see if combustion gases were getting in the cooling water and for sure they were. And by then the oil was getting milky. I changed the oil 2x, and drained the block. Fogged it really well.
​Got a warm spell in Feb and started taking it apart. Ironically the heads came off easy with the help of my De Walt impact gun, it was the intake that gave me fits, the old gaskets were baked on like Kryptonite!
​The head gaskets were blown in both #1 and #2, there was a slit in the fire rings that you could easily see. So I guess that the overheat weakened them but they did not fail to the point of letting in water till the end of last summer. I finally got it all back together with a pair of re-man heads, Fel Pro gaskets and a new Volvo style center riser exhaust replacing the batwings. Ran it on the water hose today and it sounded great.

​PS fogging it several times then cranking it with ig disabled and plugs out and then fogging it again thru the plug holes really helped. This engine had salt water in it for probably 4/5 days, and when I pulled it apart in Feb after all that fogging, there was NO rust in the cyls at all.

​PPS I know people scoff at the Mercruiser oil being NMMA rated, what does it really mean, is the extra corrosion resistance really significant. Well after I took it apart down to checking each lifter for corrosion....there was....NONE....not on the lifters, not in the lifter bores, not on anything but a light bit of rust on one of the pushrods. I used this oil probably for the past 5 years and I'm thinking it may have helped, who knows. But I would have expected an engine that had salt water in it, would have had significant corrosion.....
 
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Lou C

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Removed the plugs last night, blew-out the cylinders, and replaced the plugs.
Going down to the boat soon, I expect it to start.........
​Will report back later.

​When you say you blew out the cyls, was there water or AF?
Good spark?
Fuel?
 

FreeBeeTony

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Checked the compression last night w/ 2 different gauges. Numbers were not good.........70-120#.
Pressurized the FWC cooling system, didn't hold 15# for long.............system not empty.
Going to start by removing risers and manifolds next.
This sucks!
 

Lou C

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How about squirting some oil in the cyls and doing another comp test; that might tell you if it's rings or valves; or do a leak down test if you can. You might have a few valves starting to stick and might be able to just get the heads done. When I pulled mine apart I found 2sticking valves they caused rough running after a start but the engine smoothed out as it ran a bit.
 

FreeBeeTony

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I pulled the starboard riser and manifold last night.
​Drained the manifold 1st........found the manifold with a lot of AF and corrosion.
Going to pull the other side later today.
 

FreeBeeTony

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