No spark now? I'm about to give up

[Gas Giant]

Well, I think I may be giving up on boating soon. You can only try so much before you have to call it quits. I've been screwing around with this boat for nearly a year now, and I'm tired of it.

Ok, here's the story. I have a Force 50 engine, not sure of year but its somewhere in the 1988-92 range. Some of you recently gave me advice on installing it om my boat, which was completed successfully. For reference, when I bought the engine, it started right up and ran great, and has 135 on each cylinder.

And it ran great. I attempted to take it out on the water last Friday, and it...well it ran.....sort of. I couldn't get ANY speed on the boat, and the engine would hardly throttle up. It didn't die or give me any other problems; it got me out and back without failing.

Got it back on the trailer, and I got some jerk's fishing line wrapped around the prop. I managed to get that off (had to pull the prop) and didn't see any obvious signs of damage. I ran the engine again in a tub of clean water to flush out the brackish water, and it started right up and ran fine like always.

Flash forward to today. I went out and did the Wide Open Throttle adjustment per the Clymer's manual - turns out in addition to the fishing line around the prop, the throttle wasn't opening all the way.

Go to start it, and it will sputter, but not run. WTF? It was running fine two days ago, and would always fire up on the first few cranks without fail. I tried quite a few times to fire it up, even going as far to try and put the throttle back to the way it was before. No avail. In fact, it got to the point where it wouldn't even sputter anymore, just crank.

So, I grabbed my spark tester, and sure enough I'm not sparking anymore.

What the heck would cause this? Did the system just get hot with all the cranking? Or should I start posting a craiglist ad, because I am NOT spending another fortune on this thing.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: No spark now? I'm about to give up

Does it have a man overboard or kill switch? Is the clip in the switch or has it accidentally been pulled out? Is it cranking fast enough? too low a cranking speed will not charge the CD boxes and there will be no spark--even if all the electronics are OK.

 

[Gas Giant]

Re: No spark now? I'm about to give up

I checked the kill switch; its still plugged in. I'll re-check it tomorrow when it's light outside.

It was cranking over pretty fast, as fast as it did the last time it started. When I first tried starting it tonight (after the WOT adjustment) it would sputter, but not run. After a few attempts, it quit sputtering and would just crank.

 

[Robert D]

Re: No spark now? I'm about to give up

Check that kill circuit closely.....But first start by disconnecting it at the CDI unit. With the circuit disconnected, check for spark. If you have spark, trace the kill circuit for a short to ground. (Switch is likely)

If no spark, next disconnect the rectifier/regulator stator wires. (2 of them, tape them to insulate.) Test for spark. If you have spark, replace the rectifier/regulator.

If no spark, check the resistance on the stator and trigger wire pairs, as well as the coils primary & secondary. Might be looking at the CDI unit.....there's not much else.

 

[puddle jumper]

Re: No spark now? I'm about to give up

I had a similar problem a couple of years ago. Pull the fly wheel and check the magnet that is glued to the fly wheel. Mine came right off and stuck to the stator.I just glued it back on and was good to go. Just like yours mine ran good shut it off and would not start. It took me about two weeks to find this out.

 

[ljc1957]

Re: No spark now? I'm about to give up

Gas Giant, don't give up yet. I'll bet the problem is something very simple. Lots of help here on this forum. Step away from it for awhile, then start from scratch. There's a sticky thread on this site detailing the method for starting an old outboard. Follow it and I'll bet you locate the problem. Good Luck

 

[Gas Giant]

Re: No spark now? I'm about to give up

I'll check out the CDI unit. But after a year of messing with this boat, getting completely screwed over by a marine mechanic, having it ready to go and then having it break within two days 3 separate times, even going as far as swapping engines, and spending more on this boat than I could have gotten a much nicer one for............I'm just about at the end of my patience.

 

[Gas Giant]

Re: No spark now? I'm about to give up

Oh yeah, a bit of info that may help you experts - it seems like it takes this engine awhile to shut off after I take the key out. Meaning that when I turn the key and remove it, it sometimes runs for as much as 5 seconds before shutting off. Is that normal, or could it be an indicator of another problem I have, which is hopefully related to it not starting now?

 

[Gas Giant]

Re: No spark now? I'm about to give up

I checked out the kill switch, the wiring from it to the ignition switch is still fine, and its plugged in securely.

I tried for good measure to start it again, and of course, nothing, no sputtering or anything.

I'm not exactly clear on what to do at this point. I'm not sure how to disconnect the CDI unit - there are many wires going to and from it, and I am not sure which one (or all?) to disconnect. Do I interrupt it's path to the kill switch? If so I assume I could just disconnect it at the switch, instead of disconnecting wiring on the engine itself?

For reference, and if it helps, here is a pic of the side of my engine before I put it on the boat:

I'm basically begging for info at this point...or if anyone lives close by and wants to make a little extra cash (or beer) let me know.

 

[ljc1957]

Re: No spark now? I'm about to give up

I wonder if you have a bad ignition switch? Try jumping the hot wire directly off the battery and see if it runs.

 

[Gas Giant]

Re: No spark now? I'm about to give up

Ok, sorry for staying away for awhile. The ignition switch is OK I think, as I checked the continuity across the terminals in the 3 positions of the key and everything appeared correct.

Turns out I do have spark on the top plug but not the bottom one. I didn't have a good ground connection the first time I tested it. But today, I tested it using several different ground points, including a jumper straight to the battery, and the bottom one refused to spark. (But the top one did on every test)

Does this mean I have a bad coil, or are there more things I need to check out first?

 

[Robert D]

Re: No spark now? I'm about to give up

I'll put my money on the coil. Double check the resistance, as per the manual. (Primary & secondary)

 

[Gas Giant]

Re: No spark now? I'm about to give up

Well, as I was preparing to start taking the coil out, I noticed a broken wire! Crimped a new terminal on it and reinstalled it, and I'm sparking again.

I'll need to make a more permanent repair soon, as the wire is pulled tight and needs some strain relief, but at least I know now what the problem was. Thanks everyone!

 

[emoney]

Re: No spark now? I'm about to give up

Just know that the frustrations make you tougher! (or fill in something there motivational, lol) On a serious note, however, all of these issues will come back to pay off. Once you get everything totally ironed out, and have enjoyed the boat/motor for several trips out, it's inevitable that something will happen, and more than likely, when you're about 5 miles away from home. Every problem you've encountered has also had a silver lining in that you've gain knowledge. That way, when you do have that issue, you'll be prepared to handle it. And regardless of the problems (we all face) and the frustrations, it all goes away when the spray hits your face and the wind blows your hair while you're driving, WOT in your own boat! Good luck and keep the faith.

 

[puddle jumper]

Re: No spark now? I'm about to give up

Good for you I know how hard it can be. Been there done that

 

[Gas Giant]

Re: No spark now? I'm about to give up

Well, got it to run today.

The full story, for those that search this later on in time, is that when I adjusted the WOT adjustment, it rendered the idle speed too low. A small adjustment and it fired up and ran fine. After I shut it down, I pushed the throttle lever all the way forward and shined a flashlight in the carb, looks like its still opening all the way, so hopefully I'm set for another test run.

The broken wire was just an incidental, added frustration.

Thanks to the cooler heads on this forum who helped me fix it, and not do something rash like sell it.

 

[sidenberg]

Re: No spark now? I'm about to give up

We will never surrender!