No neutral when running

[Kingstonlad]

I have a 1972 18hp Evinrude (18202R) that came with a little Livingston skiff. The motor had not been used for about seven years, and had been sitting outside without cover except for its cowl. After doing a tear down, and a good cleaning - carb kit, new gear oil, new impeller, new head and exhaust gaskets, plugs and grease, I put it in a garbage can full of water and cranked her up. Ran a little rough, but I haven't messed with the ignition system at all. Problem: I have no neutral! The shift lever IS in the neutral position when I start her up, but she starts up in forward gear. I can shift into reverse just fine, but there is no neutral in between. I took her out of the water, pulled the plugs (for easier turning of the flywheel) and took the lever through the shifting sequence. I had forward, reverse, and managed to find just a tiny place on the aft side of 'forward' where the prop turned freely. I put her back into the water, cranked her up again, and tried to find that little spot where I found neutral ... no luck! So before I tear into the lower unit gear box again (yes I was in there before) I thought I'd ask you guys if there is something simple (yeah, right) that I may be missing. I've been mining this site for several months and have gotten some great nuggets of advice from your members, but all the gear problems seem to be for missing either forward or reverse. I should add that I've never worked on outboard motors before so please be gentle.

 

[HighTrim]

Re: No neutral when running

When you re installed the bottom bolt into the shift rod coupler, were you certain that the detent in the rod was perfectly aligned with the hole before installing the bolt?

 

[Kingstonlad]

Re: No neutral when running

When you re installed the bottom bolt into the shift rod coupler, were you certain that the detent in the rod was perfectly aligned with the hole before installing the bolt?

I was sure before you asked! Since this motor has a handy little 'inspection plate opening' I will go out and double check, but I am pretty sure that the detent was where it was supposed to be.

 

[Kingstonlad]

Re: No neutral when running

When you re installed the bottom bolt into the shift rod coupler, were you certain that the detent in the rod was perfectly aligned with the hole before installing the bolt?

Okay, checked the detent and it was in correct position. I again turned engine by hand through forward, reverse, and neutral, and again found a neutral spot where prop turned freely. Put engine back in water, started it up, but could find no neutral.

 

[F_R]

Re: No neutral when running

You shouldn't have to "find" neutral. It should snap into each of the three positions without any monkeying around with it. Something is wrong with the linkage, somewhere. Unfortunately, we can't tell where from here. You say it isn't the connector, so it has to be either upstairs under the powerhead, or downstairs inside the lower unit. You should be able to notice the lost motion up above (if any) by watching the connector move up and down inside the oval hole as you move the shifter.

 

[HighTrim]

Re: No neutral when running

Hmmmmm, you don't think its in gear because the prop is moving a bit in "neutral" do you? Or are you sure its in gear.

If you spin the prop out of the water when the shifter is in neutral, will it free spin, then as you advance it into forward, lock into gear, etc...

 

[racerone]

Re: No neutral when running

Did not remove the shift pivot pin when changing the oil you ?

 

[steelespike]

Re: No neutral when running

Just guessing something around the shift yoke is damaged missing.Again guessing there is some sort of slop that works ok in the extreme position of forward and reverse but can't hold the clutch dog in neutral position.
I haven't been in a gear case in 40 years as I recall its fairly simple.Just don't lose track of the detent balls and spring in the prop shaft.

 

[Kingstonlad]

Re: No neutral when running

Thanks guys. Yes I do have three very distinct 'positions' with the shift lever. The prop (out of water) does engage in the correct direction in relation to the position of the gear shift lever, and yes, in the neutral position it spins freely ... all of these things "out of water" with the flywheel being turned by hand. It is quite possible that I goofed something up when I had the gear assembly apart. I guess I'll just have to dive into it again to see what's what. If that fails I guess I'll just buy a lot of oversized bumpers.

 

[coolbri70]

Re: No neutral when running

+1 the pivot pin, did you remove a screw like this one

 

[Kingstonlad]

Re: No neutral when running

I did take the gear housing apart. The pivot pin remained where it was although it would have been a lot easier if I had removed it. I wouldn't have had to mess with that tiny cotter pin. I have read that the pin should not be removed as you will have to go into the gear housing to re position it correctly.

 

[HighTrim]

Re: No neutral when running

Im missing what is wrong here. When you say, ON the Water, are you on a boat or in a barrel?

You said it goes through all the gears fine? You are saying, that when on the boat, and you shift into neutral you are still moving?

 

[racerone]

Re: No neutral when running

.If that pin was left in place during lower unit work then I would say you need to take it all apart again.-----------The pin is NOT to be removed if you are NOT taking the lower unit apart.--------If you are removing the skeg to work on the gears you MUST take that pin out and all is easy after you learn how.

 

[steelespike]

Re: No neutral when running

Im missing what is wrong here. When you say, ON the Water, are you on a boat or in a barrel?

You said it goes through all the gears fine? You are saying, that when on the boat, and you shift into neutral you are still moving?

From his description I get that when operated by hand not running he can find a narrow neutral position.
But not when running on the water driving the boat.
It does appear that he should have removed the pivot pin because he took the gear case apart.

 

[racerone]

Re: No neutral when running

To me it sounds like cradle and shifter fork inside the lower unit need to be looked at.

 

[Kingstonlad]

Re: No neutral when running

Let me clear up a couple of points. I've never been "on" the water with this motor. All testing and running have been done using a barrel of water. When the engine is running in what should be neutral, there is as much water being stirred up and thrown out of the barrel as when it is in a geared position (forward or reverse). In the next few days I am going to remove the lower unit, run a couple of tests to see if the prop is actually in a 'geared' turn in all shift positions, or if it may be a 'friction' induced turning. At any rate I'm sure I'll be digging into the gearbox in the near future. Thanks for the help, and I'll post any results.

 

[racerone]

Re: No neutral when running

Clearly there is something wrong here.-Further testing can damage the clutch dog and forward / reverse gears.-----You can look up the price of replacement parts on ---shop.evinrude.com----if you like.

 

[HighTrim]

Re: No neutral when running

Ok I understand. There still will be turbulence from the exhaust, even in neutral. I have been through this before on this forum....ended up the poster was near me, so I went over. He wasn't in gear at all, just didn't realize the bubbles were from the exhaust! Easy fix

Should definitely not be the same turbulence as in gear though.

 

[oldboat1]

Re: No neutral when running

just for grins, maybe check the coupler one more time. I've sometimes found the detent in the rod tricky to reinstall. I've had to take the hex bolt all the way out, and pry the coupler open a little on one or two to make sure the rod goes all the way in. Only one bolt needs to be removed, but if you took the coupler off, make sure both the upper and lower rods are fully reseated.

 

[Kingstonlad]

Re: No neutral when running

Okay Oldboat ... tomorrow morning I'll start grinning! You're right, anything worth doing once, is usually worth doing twice(except marrying the same woman) ... I tried that once, and like they say: The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. If that does not help the situation, I've got a test I'll try before I open up the gear box ... I'll post a pic.