No fire on either cylinder

[Just 1 more]

Need help please. 89 force 50 hp cranks but has no fire on either of the 2 cylinders. No recent work has been done. One day it started on first bump and ran great and the next day crank no start, no fire. Here’s what I’ve done so far:
Checked kill switch for engagement.
Verified no spark at plug wires with spark tester.
Checked circuit breaker and verified power thru breaker.
Disconnected kill wires at terminal block.
Visually checked wires coming from under flywheel, to rectifier, to CDI and coils for loose and worn condition.
Installed new CDI
I have not pulled the flywheel yet.
Anyone have any ideas of what I can try next? Are there any fuses? Maybe a bad ground somewhere? Thanks

 

[Nordin]

What ignition system do you have?
Prestolite with two blue or black coils mounted at the block and one blue or black CDI box.
As you says you have no spark at both cylinders it sounds like there is an issue with the CDI box or the stator.
It been some years since I worked with the 50Hp but I think it has a glued magnetic strip under the flywheel as the 3 and 4-cylinder with Prestolite system has.
It is not uncommon that the glued magnetic strip come loose from the flywheel and it loose spark.
I suggest you to pull the flywheel and check how it looks like under the flywheel.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Hope you can understand this??
Need to figure out the model? Figure out the model and testing gets easier. Testing the stator.
Troubleshooting No fire on any cylinder: 1. Check the resistance from each blue to the yellow wires, you should read approximately 300 ohms. 2. Check the resistance from each blue and yellow wires to engine ground, you should read open circuit (Just like the leads were not touching anything). 3. Check DVA (Peak voltage) from blue to the yellow wires, you should read at least 180V. 4. Disconnect the stator wires and check the DVA (Peak voltage) from each blue and yellow wire to engine ground, you should read no voltage or extremely low voltage. No fire on one cylinder: 1. Check the resistance from the blue to the yellow wire on the pack not firing, you should read approximately 300 ohms. If the resistance is not right, check the other set of wires. If the other set is ok, gently pull on the wires close to the connector If the insulation stretches, the wire is broken inside the insulation and a new terminal needs to be put on. 2. Check DVA (Peak voltage) from the blue to the yellow wire, you should read at least 180V. NO FIRE ON TWO CYLINDERS: If two cylinders from the same CD unit will not fire, the problem is usually in the stator. Test per no fire any cylinder above. If the #1 and #3 cylinders are not firing, disconnect the Brown/Yellow wire from the pack #1 and retest. If you now get fire on #3, replace the #1 pack. If still no fire on #3, disconnect the Brown/Yellow wire from the pack #2 and retest. If you now get fire on #1, replace the #2 pack. If the #2 and #4 cylinders are not firing, disconnect the Brown/Blue wire from the pack #1 and retest. If you now get fire on #4, replace the #1 pack. If still no fire on #4, disconnect the Brown/Blue wire from the pack #2 and retest. If you now get fire on #2, replace the #2 pack

 

[Just 1 more]

What ignition system do you have?
Prestolite with two blue or black coils mounted at the block and one blue or black CDI box.
As you says you have no spark at both cylinders it sounds like there is an issue with the CDI box or the stator.
It been some years since I worked with the 50Hp but I think it has a glued magnetic strip under the flywheel as the 3 and 4-cylinder with Prestolite system has.
It is not uncommon that the glued magnetic strip come loose from the flywheel and it loose spark.
I suggest you to pull the flywheel and check how it looks like under the flywheel.

Thanks for your reply. It is a prestolite ignition with 2 blue coils and 1 blue CDI box. I can only assume the CDI is good since it is new and didn’t solve the issue. I removed the flywheel today and there is a single round metal ring that I guess is the magnet. It’s the size of the inside of the flywheel and is not attached to anything. In other words, when I pulled the flywheel off, it was still laying on top of the engine around the stator. I lifted the ring right off with no trouble. From what I have read that is supposed to be attached to the flywheel, correct?
The stator has 2 yellow wires that were connected to the rectifier and 4 brown wires. 1 brown with blue stripe, 1 brown with blue and black stripe, 1 brown with yellow stripe and 1 brown with yellow and black stripe. The yellow wires showed continuity but none of the brown ones did. All combinations of reading the brown wires indicated an open circuit. Thanks again for your reply.

 

[Just 1 more]

Hope you can understand this??
Need to figure out the model? Figure out the model and testing gets easier. Testing the stator.
Troubleshooting No fire on any cylinder: 1. Check the resistance from each blue to the yellow wires, you should read approximately 300 ohms. 2. Check the resistance from each blue and yellow wires to engine ground, you should read open circuit (Just like the leads were not touching anything). 3. Check DVA (Peak voltage) from blue to the yellow wires, you should read at least 180V. 4. Disconnect the stator wires and check the DVA (Peak voltage) from each blue and yellow wire to engine ground, you should read no voltage or extremely low voltage. No fire on one cylinder: 1. Check the resistance from the blue to the yellow wire on the pack not firing, you should read approximately 300 ohms. If the resistance is not right, check the other set of wires. If the other set is ok, gently pull on the wires close to the connector If the insulation stretches, the wire is broken inside the insulation and a new terminal needs to be put on. 2. Check DVA (Peak voltage) from the blue to the yellow wire, you should read at least 180V. NO FIRE ON TWO CYLINDERS: If two cylinders from the same CD unit will not fire, the problem is usually in the stator. Test per no fire any cylinder above. If the #1 and #3 cylinders are not firing, disconnect the Brown/Yellow wire from the pack #1 and retest. If you now get fire on #3, replace the #1 pack. If still no fire on #3, disconnect the Brown/Yellow wire from the pack #2 and retest. If you now get fire on #1, replace the #2 pack. If the #2 and #4 cylinders are not firing, disconnect the Brown/Blue wire from the pack #1 and retest. If you now get fire on #4, replace the #1 pack. If still no fire on #4, disconnect the Brown/Blue wire from the pack #2 and retest. If you now get fire on #2, replace the #2 pack

Thanks for your reply. It is a prestolite ignition with 2 blue coils and 1 blue CDI box. I can only assume the CDI is good since it is new and didn’t solve the issue. I removed the flywheel today and there is a single round metal ring that I guess is the magnet. It’s the size of the inside of the flywheel and is not attached to anything. In other words, when I pulled the flywheel off, it was still laying on top of the engine around the stator. I lifted the ring right off with no trouble. From what I have read that is supposed to be attached to the flywheel, correct?
The stator has 2 yellow wires that were connected to the rectifier and 4 brown wires. 1 brown with blue stripe, 1 brown with blue and black stripe, 1 brown with yellow stripe and 1 brown with yellow and black stripe. The yellow wires showed continuity but none of the brown ones did. All combinations of reading the brown wires indicated an open circuit. Thanks again for your reply.

 

[Just 1 more]

Thanks for your reply. It is a prestolite ignition with 2 blue coils and 1 blue CDI box. I can only assume the CDI is good since it is new and didn’t solve the issue. I removed the flywheel today and there is a single round metal ring that I guess is the magnet. It’s the size of the inside of the flywheel and is not attached to anything. In other words, when I pulled the flywheel off, it was still laying on top of the engine around the stator. I lifted the ring right off with no trouble. From what I have read that is supposed to be attached to the flywheel, correct?
The stator has 2 yellow wires that were connected to the rectifier and 4 brown wires. 1 brown with blue stripe, 1 brown with blue and black stripe, 1 brown with yellow stripe and 1 brown with yellow and black stripe. The yellow wires showed continuity but none of the brown ones did. All combinations of reading the brown wires indicated an open circuit. Thanks again for your reply.

 

[Nordin]

Well that is you issue. The magnetic strip is loose.
Some pics will confirm if it is the issue.
It is suppose to be inside the flywheel attached to the inside rim.
You can try to glue it back to the flywheel.
Clean the surface of the strip and the flywheel very well.
Coat the surfaces with a thin amount of 2-component epoxy glue or similar and glue it back.
Let it dry/harden and put the flywheel back.
It is important that there will be a small gap between the strip and the stator.
The flywheel inner rim shall not touch the stator when you turn the flywheel.
If this not work you have to look for another flywheel.
The stator generate voltage when the magnetic strip (field) runs around the stator windings.
There are two windings in the stator one for the ignition system and one for the charging system to the battery.
The two yellows are for the battery charging and are connected to the rectifier.
The four brown wires with different color stripes are for the ignition system to charge the capacitors in the CDI box.
Brown/yellow and brown/black/yellow goes to the terminal where the brown/yellow from the CDI box is connected.
The Brown/blue and Brown/black/blue goes to the terminal where the Brown/blue from the CDI box is connected.
BTW You have to tight the flywheel nut with the right torque when you put it back.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Glue the magnet back in.
You'll need to clean the magnet and the flywheel REALLLY good!!!
Use a thin hard drying glue, or super glue.
You might have to sand the magnet and take a couple thousands off so it fits good.

 

[Just 1 more]

Update: Success! Runs like a sewing machine. As stated earlier, I read the stator and got no continuity on either side and the magnet was loose from the flywheel. Epoxyed the magnet in and just got the new stator installed. Thanks to you both for your help. It‘s a ‘89 so I’m sure I’ll be back for for advice. Thanks again!

 

[jerryjerry05]

YEA!!!!
Glad it's running.

 

[Mc Tool]

Ha , I was just about to post telling you that the magnet may have to be "timed " to the flywheel to get the ignition timing to line up with the marks on the flywheel. But you either figured this for yourself or Im wrong , but either way Im pleased you got it sorted