Nightmare

[Lou C]

I noticed the throttle valve fluttering in the previous vid as well and that's interesting that it shakes less when hold it down so it is nearly closed...perhaps its letting in more air than the EFI system can compensate for and the rough running is leaness, perhaps also related to the misfire codes....
Wasn't there another person with a problem with a Volvo, who got a new engine from Michigan Motorz who had some similar problem, and was trying to adjust the amount that the throttle valve is supposed to close...I seem to remember that from a month or 2 ago. Other things...idle air control valve? Vacuum leaks? although vacuum leaks often cause a whining or whistling noise...

 

[stephan4x4]

Still looking to what could be wrong and noticed some issues. Would anybody have the standards settings for this engine?
I told previously I adjusted the timing, but the 0 deg +-2 turns out not to be for the 5.0L VP.
I'm looking everywhere but cannot find the service manual for this engine.
Looking deeper into the misfire #8 cyl looks like could be so many things that is disencouraging.

 

[alldodge]

Timing is set by placement of distributor, timing light is not used. There is a bulletin which list a more precise method of timing, but the misfire would lean me to ignition connections and components.

The motor doesn't have an IAC so the PCM is just trying to compensate what its seeing. Use the scan tool and see what the cam angle is


View attachment Bul 2011 11R2 HVS clocking.pdf

 

[stephan4x4]

I moved the distributor yesterday by checking the scanner into 0 degrees (actually -0.5), do you happen to know what is the best cam angle is for this engine? I read trough your pdf (thanks btw!!) but it does not show it.

 

[alldodge]

If I remember correctly frm a post that muc mentioned, said to increase rpms to 1500 and set for 13* which is in between 10 to 15

 

[stephan4x4]

I set it to 13 degrees. today it fired right up with no rattling, I installed a vacuum gauge to check and it looks fine I believe, unless someone sees anything different. The throttle vals continues to fluctuate a lot, what is probably the cause of the vacuum needle to fluctuates a bit.

 

[alldodge]

When rpms increase above 1000 the vacuum gauge is steady and so is the TB, correct?

If true, then the vacuum flutter is being caused by the TB flutter

 

[stephan4x4]

When rpms increase above 1000 the vacuum gauge is steady and so is the TB, correct?

If true, then the vacuum flutter is being caused by the TB flutter

That's correct

 

[stephan4x4]

3 things that I noted today.

1- Even with all faults cleared, when I turn the ignition on, the alarm sounds and the "Service Required" text shows up at the dashboard, Scan tool does not show any (active of old faults) it only clears when the engine is running.

2- I removed the gas line from the pump to the tank, in the tank coupling had a bit of a brown substance, but I ran straight from another small tank with new gas and the same fault showed up. Gas pressure is steady at 30PSI

3- The engine fault only show up idling after a couple minutes and it is always the SPN=1330 Misfire Cyl 8 (Failure Mode =31), if I rev up the engine it will clear the fault after a couple of seconds.

Could a bad valve, valve lifter or valve spring be doing this?

 

[alldodge]

Could a bad valve, valve lifter or valve spring be doing this?

I don't see how, because if there was an issue with one of those, it would get worst as the rpms increased

PM MUC to see if you can get input. He's probably busier then a one armed paper hanger, but I just don't know where to go

 

[muc]

Sorry I didn't get here earlier. Techmate is a good tool in the hands of an experienced and trained technician. Diacom is better because you can record files and seek help with them.
Misfire faults can be very hard to diagnose. There are very many possible causes. Something as simple as a minor exhaust leak can set a misfire fault.
I haven't used a techmate on a cat engine, so I'm not sure what all the tests and data you can see with one.
Does it have a misfire counter? If so are you just seeing misfires on one cylinder or multiple cylinders?
Memorize them or take a picture and then use the tool to clear them and see when and at what RPM they come back.
Faults set differently on cat engines. They have to meet certain parameters and sometimes need to happen more then once at a specific speed.
There are 3 fault tables you need to look at. Active, Previous and Pending. What are you seeing in all 3?
Will the tool run a O2 test? If so what are the results.
I believe the tool has a warning monitor. What do you see there?
Do you have a catalyst monitor?

"Could a bad valve, valve lifter or valve spring be doing this?"
Yes, might want to do a compression test.

You really need a copy of the EGC Diagnostics Workshop Manual part number 7749393. Trouble with this manual is that it was written for a tech who has been to Volvo school. But it will help even without the classroom and has a pretty good section on misfire troubleshooting.

Misfire is a serious problem that can can very expensive if not repaired.

Misfire is of concern for four main reasons:
1. Damage can occur to catalyst systems due to the presence of
unburned fuel and oxygen causing chemical reactions resulting
in extremely high temperatures causing irreversible damage to
catalytic coatings and/or substrates,
2. Exhaust emissions increase during misfiring,
3. The engine’s driveability suffers due to inconsistent operation,
and
4. Fuel economy suffers due to the need for higher power operating
conditions to achieve the same brake torque.

 

[stephan4x4]

Thanks for the reply muc !!!
alldodge
is helping me a lot here too and I really appreciate y`alls help!

Its always on Cyl#8 witch is Cylinder #2 I believe (based on the manual) It shows as active fault but when I change rpm`s or even wait a bit it goes as previous faults.

There is a catalytic tool, I ran it but it ran for more than 25 minutes and did not show anything. when I aborted it just showed that was aborted and that was it. Nowhere shows how long that test should last.
I`ll check compression next...

 

[muc]

#8 was just the first cylinder that meets the requirements to set a fault. The question is about the other 7 cylinders. What we are looking to see is if it’s all 8 have somewhat even amounts or just 4 cylinders on one side?

Should not take 25 minutes to complete the test. That means something is keeping the test from completing.

 

[twiggy2cents]

Unless I missed it did you try swapping plugs and wires? Try changing the distributor cap?

 

[stephan4x4]

Well... today I dig deeper again and tested the compression of the cylinders. Bad news. 3 of them are quite low compared to the other 5. Now it's time to take the engine out (again) for the 3rd time and fix it.

 

[alldodge]

With low numbers like that I would expect valve warp from running lean. If it is valves then just the heands need work

 

[muc]

Now it's time to take the engine out (again) for the 3rd time and fix it.

Compression like that, is a symptom that was caused by something else. Especially in a newer engine.
Befote pulling the engine, I would recommend doing some more testing. Maybe a engine running (dynamic) compression test. For sure a leak down test.
When you did the compression test, did you use the compression test feature on the scantool? Was the throttle plate open?

Did you do any of the other tests I recommended?

 

[stephan4x4]

Yes, I did used the tool and the throttle body was open. I'm inclined to take at least the heads out.
I might be fooled by the engine seller. Now thinking about the "bent crankshaft" is quite something strange anyway.

 

[stephan4x4]

All right... some news on this topic.

Removed the engine from the boat, took it apart and surprisingly had some valve stamps on 5 piston heads, what obiously indicated that in some point of time a wrong timing occured, maybe when that bent crankshaft was installed, who knows.
Now I decided to fix that engine (found a very nice shop in Raleigh, BTW). They will rebuild the engine in a professional way, not like Rapido Marine did when they sold it to me as a "new" long block!

Do anyone here knows what is the original camshaft used by VP? (how many degrees) AND what is the original compression of that engine?


Thanks! and I`ll keep you posted on the outcome...

 

[muc]

Technical Data Engine designation V8-270-C
Compression ratio 9.4:1

Don't think I have ever seen Volvo give out any details on the cam other then lobe lift.
They seem to prefer you buy their $610.95 shaft.......