Newbie, looking for brand recommendations

[Mookster]

Ive always been a car and bike guy, and am ready to try the water... i live on long island sound, so definitely looking saltwater. I have no clue what im looking at as far as brands. I want approx 20 foot used boat, $12-$15k range, something quality, with a V8, preferably Volvo Penta, and def want bow rider. This boat will be strictly used for cruising the sound with friends on weekends, possibly pulling a tube or board, probably rarely even go more than 4-5 miles off shore. as far as brands, im not sure what is considered a salt water boat, and what brands should be left to fresh water... Ive been looking locally and on ebay at Sea Ray, Crownline, Maxum, Four Winns, Glastron, Mariah, Cobalt, WellCraft.... im sure some of these brands should be left for the lake. Any recommendations... or is there a beginners thread somewhere that explains all this stuff?
thanks!

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: Newbie, looking for brand recommendations

OK first of all I am biased, I love Crownlines but lets take this step by step so that I don't get some other members all ticked off,

First of all your looking used so the first rule is that manufacturer plays very little into your choice, the most important factor for you to consider is the care the boat has had over its lifetime. Most here would favor a marine survey of the boat prior to purchase and I agree but since your new to boats I would take a good friend who is knowledgeable in boats, your friend should know what to look for, soft floor rotten stringers tired motor etc. go over the boat with a fine toothed comb and use the search feature here on iboats to learn what to look for.

Now lets jump into types of boats, if your into cars and motorcycles (like me) I liked sporty bowriders, I looked at Chaparral's, Sea Rays, Mariah's and Cobalt's which were all pretty popular here in Colorado, due to my financial situation as well as the fact this was going to be my first boat we went with a Crownline about 15 years old but in overall good shape and priced where I could get a good enough price that I could get my money out of it when it was time to upgrade. This philosophy has never failed me and I highly recommend you do the same, do not spend all your money on "The" boat since your likely to damage it learning how to boat, get a nice boat at a fair price that your not worried about damaging, everyone bangs their first boat off the dock every so often.

Start reasonable, less then $10,000 but more likely in the $7000-$6000 range, all the manufacturers you listed are well made boats, but I would add Chaparral to your list of possibles. Your location may have a different market then mine so the makes and prices may be a little more or less. Save your money for another year or two for "The" boat, welcome to "twofootitis", everyone gets it in boating!

The only thing I would add is take your time its your market, even into the fall and winter depending on where you are, I would not buy another boat without a sea trial so your location would determine how far into the fall you can go

 

[Mookster]

Re: Newbie, looking for brand recommendations

thanks for the info.... The reason im asking about the salt vs fresh thing, is i have guys near me telling me that some of those brands mentioned are "lake boats". Cobalt for instance, im told is not something to consider if im going to be in salt water only, its a lake boat... and living in CO, im guessing all your boating is done in fresh water. what makes a boat a salt or fresh water boat? i guess im looking at it like cars and bikes too.... there are certain brands i will always buy, just because i like the way they look and run, and are easy to work on... and brands ill never even consider, even though others love them. So what are those brands in the boating world? i think im set on a sporty bowrider, V8, and i know ill be in salt only, so for guys running a 20ft bowrider in salt water, what are the preferred brands and why?
thanks!

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Newbie, looking for brand recommendations

since you have already made up your mind to get a bow rider, I can't tell you (from a lifetime of recreational boating on salt water) what to do because I would seldom if ever recommend either a bow rider or an I/O for your use. But there are many reasons why the boats that are popular among the lake boaters are not found on salt water, and it has little to do with the water itself.

Rather than take advice from around the country, walk around the marina's on Long Island and talk to the people who appear to be experienced boaters. Note the prominent styles of boats and hull shapes. See what they say about your plan to get a bow rider.

It sounds like from your comments you are concerned about a sporty appearance. In boats, form should follow function. There are many "sporty" and popular designs that frankly are not seaworthy. On a car, putting spoiler on an accord does no good, but it does no harm. On a boat, a scooped bow does no good but it can be fatal.

Consider this analogy: "I want to buy a bike for mountain trail riding, but it has to be a 10 speed with drop handlebars and thin tires...."

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: Newbie, looking for brand recommendations

I don't think any of the makes you listed would be out of the question in salt water, I think the only real problem with salt water is the possibility of hitting big water, on lakes the biggest waves I have seen are in the 6' range, not fun but doable. On a large bay or the ocean? The waves can be much bigger, so here comes that phrase again common sense would tell you probably not a good day to be on the bay when there's 60 MPH winds and seas at 10' +, but on the same side how many people own their own aircraft carrier? I have never heard that any of the makes you listed were not seaworthy, maybe not ideal but I know plenty of people that have Crownlines in Florida and boat all year on the ocean, Cobalt is no less a boat then a Crownline so I call BS on that. I believe you use a different type of anode on salt water then you do on fresh water but were talking about $50 set of anodes that you can simply change out. I believe that most boats designed for the ocean have a deeper hull to help them deal with bigger waves but I think with some common sense there really isn't much of a reason to think you can't use a "Lake" boat on the ocean, I mean there's a thread on here about some people that rode their jet skis from Florida to the Bahamas!

 

[Mookster]

Re: Newbie, looking for brand recommendations

Maybe im being misleading... im on long island sound... not the Atlantic. People that boat on the Atlantic would probably consider long island sound a lake, but its still salt water. There are 20 ft runabouts and bowriders with I/O all over long island sound, yet for some reason ive never seen a Cobalt out there ever... but when i go to the lake 20 minutes north, all i see is Cobalt after Cobalt. maybe im missing something, or its just a coincidence. I guess what im looking for, is what is known to be the most reputable brand/type of bowrider, for primary use in salt water. For instance, i see 1975 Sea Rays for sale, and there is a reason the boat is still around... i dont see any bayliners older than 10 years for sale.... and if i do, they are $500. Again, u guys know more than i do, im basically judging off the handful of times ive been out on the sound, or the local lake and what ive seen.... and trying to compare this purchase to how i would go about a car/bike purchase. maybe that doesnt compare...
To say a 20 ft bowrider doesnt belong on saltwater, or at least the saltwater on long island sound, cant be right though... they are out there left and right.

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: Newbie, looking for brand recommendations

I'm going to step aside and let Home Cookin' answer your questions Mookster before I put another foot in my mouth, Home Cookin' has way more experience then I ever will for your situation!!

Good Luck and post pics when you decide which way to go!

 

[StevenT]

Re: Newbie, looking for brand recommendations

I 2nd adding Chaparral to your list. Good quality boat with good resale value.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Newbie, looking for brand recommendations

there are two issues with the "salt water" question.
One is the "salt." A poorly made boat will have rust/corrosion problems from stem to stern after being not in salt water but in salt air. This includes cheap boats with a lot of "style" and bells and whistles that are bought by non-boaters. They last longer on fresh water lakes. they are a problem and quickly scuttled on salt. Did you say you don't see many bayliners? get a snorkle. Also, salt water boaters don't want to spend their time cleaning and waxing and covering after every use; they want a boat made for the outdoors.
The other is the "water." granted, many lakes are as rough as oceans and bays. But generally, you have more open space (longer fetch), currents, swells, large ship wakes, and lasting effects from weather systems. Just the tide against the wind is a unique issue. So you need a seaworthy boat--not that you choose to go out in bad weather; you just have to be able to come home. Bass boats, many bay boats, and most new bow riders are not designed for this and can be quite dangerous. So why limit when you can go out, and risk yourself getting caught, with a boat not made for your water?

I'm not saying bow riders are a bad boat design. They are a limited boat design. And not for your area. Don't put a square peg in a round hole.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Newbie, looking for brand recommendations

there are certain brands i will always buy, just because i like the way they look and run, and are easy to work on... !

One thing you need to keep in mind is that 99% of the boats you look at will have identical power trains. Its either one of a couple common outboards, or a mercruiser engine (generally a chevy block in the range you looking at) with alpha/bravo (mercury) drive, or a volvo penta engine/drive. There simply are no other choices. Working on any of them is going to be nearly identical, doesn't matter what the brand on the boat says.

The absolute best advice for anyone shopping for a used boat is to absolutely completely ignore brand. You aren't shopping for a car, you are shopping for the previous owner that did the best maintenance.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Newbie, looking for brand recommendations

"You aren't shopping for a car, you are shopping for the previous owner that did the best maintenance. "

Probably one of the best statements out of the last 46,000 posts here

 

[Mookster]

Re: Newbie, looking for brand recommendations

so i guess boats dont compare to cars... its sounds like you are telling me its better to buy a Toyota Camry that has perfect maintenance records, rather than a BMW 330i that has mediocre maint records... even thought the BMW would clearly be the nicer car in that case. Every brand is equal, and all that matters is how it was taken care of? There must be brands that a cut above others...
Im reading what you are telling me Home Cookin, but Long Island sound is filled with 20 ft bowrider boats, i see them all over, and have never heard of any deaths... so it cant be that dangerous. will the passengers sitting up front get a little wet if it happens to be a choppy day... sure they will, but are we going to be miserable and not have a fun day, or will our lives be in danger, probably not. Seeing your location, and that you are pretty much right on the Atlantic... id agree id never take a boat like this out into the Atlantic, but they are all over the place on Long Island sound.
Appreciate the feedback guys... i guess the answer to my question is to look for a boat where the previous owner was meticulous... and i may as well only look at boats that have only been on lakes... before i dump it into the salt water and beat it up.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Newbie, looking for brand recommendations

so i guess boats dont compare to cars... its sounds like you are telling me its better to buy a Toyota Camry that has perfect maintenance records, rather than a BMW 330i that has mediocre maint records... even thought the BMW would clearly be the nicer car in that case. Every brand is equal, and all that matters is how it was taken care of? There must be brands that a cut above others...

Absolutely, the fit and finish/features of some brands are above the rest. Of course, it doesn't make any difference that the interior is so much nicer if the boat is on the bottom because of neglected outdrive bellows (fish don't care), or the engine dies from lack of maintenance. As I mentioned above, the drive train is 99% identical in most common boats you are going to be looking at, so reliability is essentially the same, assuming the same maintenance. (aka, the high end boat won't have any different of a mechanical failure rate than the bayliner...)

Once a boat is in the used market, fit/finish/features are secondary to a) does it float?, and b) does it run?

 

[Mookster]

Re: Newbie, looking for brand recommendations

starting to make sense... almost all boats ive been looking at have 1 of 2 motors, and pretty much the same brand drivetrain.... whereas with cars, every manufacturer is making all their own parts, so you have to be very reliant on that manufacturer. i guess having it run and float is definitely more important that what kind of stereo it has! haha...
thanks again guys.

 

[NYBo]

Re: Newbie, looking for brand recommendations

A dual console outboard would be my choice. Greater freeboard than the average bowrider with essentially the same layout.