newbie, hydrolock, n how we are related

skideck2

Cadet
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
Messages
29
So, finally registered after months of lurking around the archives, posts an whatnot. Awesome site, full of great people n good advice! On to my issue...I recently acquired a 1990 Skideck with the omc cobra n 4.3 gm, she had been froze...after negotiating a price, i drove away with a great hull an maybe a working motor for free, trailer n all!! Lots of reading, troubleshooting, metal stitching a cracked block, both sides, and same to a riser on the port, she fired right up n ran like a champ! Large audience on the lake an no modesty from me. I quickly learned to sew, read some posts about upholstery, learned some awesome tricks I will share when I learn how to up pics, and a short time later (three months) had completely restored my boat, just shy of new plexi glass for the windows. Brought the boat to my local freshwater lake, tossed her in the water after rehooking my shift interrupt,( was unhooked before n findly found out what it was for) only to find the interrupt was bad. Unhooked an the boat ran decent again. Impeller was bad, but being new to power horses under water, thought she would be fine. I actually had an extra impellar with me, foreseeing changing it soon. I didn't get to it quick enough. Engine got hot and couldn't get water. Nursed her back to the dock after five or ten minutes, changed the impellar, tried to start her up. Chunk, grind, whirrr. Damn. Kept trying.......and trying.......wouldn't turn over at all after a while, and when it did go one revolution, it just didnt sound good. Found a good ole boy at the dock who taught me about hydrolock. Took out the plugs, n sure enough,water spit out of my two center cylinders. Lubed her up to prevent flash rust , let her dry overnight, popped the plugs back in n tried again. Sad sad day that was two days ago, she wouldn't even spin. I fear i forced her too far with water in the cylinders( oil level is fine by the way) n broke a connecting rod or bent something real good. Am I on the right track here? I'm leanin towards buying a block, stripping all my useful parts and jsut dropping in a rebuilt 4.3, maybe save myself alot of time n trial n error troubleshooting damage i might have done. So, to recap, any advice out there? Am I jumping the gun an maybe my metal stitched engine is still good? Could my outdrive be toast too? If nothing else, let my slackiness be a lesson to all the non impeller changers. The impellar LOOKED good, but had "taken a set". Fifteen bucks and some time could have saved me alot of headache!
 

1980Coronado

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 8, 2010
Messages
699
Re: newbie, hydrolock, n how we are related

I would say that it is definitely possible you bent a connecting rod. Happened to my dad on a 70's Sea Ray with a 5.7 Merc. I think one of the exhaust manifolds cracked due to age and let water into the cylinder through an exhaust port. Since you're block was cracked due to improper winter storage, I think you have a similar situation. Sounds to me like you'd be better off finding a rebuilt that hasn't been patched back together.
 

HT32BSX115

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
Messages
10,083
Re: newbie, hydrolock, n how we are related

to recap, any advice out there?


Howdy,


And Welcome aboard!


Well, advice...... yes. Put a few breaks and "line-feeds" in your posts and they'll be MUCH easier to read!;)


You most likely have a cracked block, heads, and/or cracked and leaking manifolds (those are the "batwing" types right?)

They're particularly bad because you cannot see inside them...... if there was pooled water in them when it froze, they're likely leaking internally even if they're NOT cracked/broken EXternally!!

When the engine is running, manifolds (and risers ) are filled with water. When you shut down, the water usually just sits there in the manifolds(cooling-jacket).....It may run back through the pump slowly, (there's usually a "case drain" or small opening so everything drains but it doesn't happen immediately)

So with that water in the manifolds (and risers) AND leaking into the exhaust area.........AND , since there's no exhaust gases to "blow" it out, it just runs back into any exhaust valve that happens to be open when the engine stops turning....... water runs right on top of the piston(s)! Then when you subsequently crank it, ......the piston comes up against an incompressible liquid........AND BAM! (hydrolock!!)



I think you need a different (complete) engine. You also need to replace those manifolds AND risers (I don't think you can even BUY the bat-wings anymore and you DO NOT want them anyway.......they're BAD JUJU!)

You can get manifold riser KITS right here on iboats!

9-40600_0.jpg


http://www.iboats.com/Manifold-Conv...8618935--**********.812892874--view_id.711075

Unfortunately they're not cheap..... Sorry about that!





Cheers,


Rick
 

skideck2

Cadet
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
Messages
29
Re: newbie, hydrolock, n how we are related

Thanks for the warm welcome and the quick replies!!

Note taken on page breaks!! The more I chew, the more it sounds like a rebuild, new block , oboy are those risers pricey!!! I do have the bat wings, there is an external crack on port side, i metal stitched it, was told they were bullet proof so likely not cracked internally!!! Sounds like I wasted some time there!!! Don think that caused my problem though..only because it ran fine for a short while the week before, no problems, multiple shutdowns and restarts, really choppy water.
I have one flapper that is really bad, think the engine got hot, maybe so hot it created a vacuum after shut down n sucked the water through my exhaust valve??? Just shootin from the hip. Was hopin on keepin the risers.

What are the odds that I have hurt my out drive in this misadventure?
 

HT32BSX115

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
Messages
10,083
Re: newbie, hydrolock, n how we are related

was told they were bullet proof so likely not cracked internally!!!
The "teller" is sadly mistaken!! The BAT-WINGS are absolutely the worst manifolds out there in "radio-land" They will eventually destroy your engine!

What are the odds that I have hurt my out drive in this misadventure?
Your drive is unrelated to your engine problems. You could damage it by trying to shift it with an inoperative electronic shift assist system or your lower shift cable is defective/maladjusted.

If you do not have an OMC service manual and you want to be able to work on your engine and drive, now would be a good time to get one.
(OEM OMC, NOT seloc or Clymer)

If you can find a copy of the Stuart Hastings article, that's good info too. (I just tried to find it and his site is "down" .......I hope not permanently)
 

skideck2

Cadet
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
Messages
29
Re: newbie, hydrolock, n how we are related

Thanks!! I'll look further into some manifolds, seems like with the cost of new manifolds, engine and my time, I could darn near buy another boat at the end of this season!! Too bad I like the style of this boat so much.. I don't have a manual yet, well only the downloadable one, but I have one on the way. I have been able to find enough bits n pieces of it from posts here, thankfully!! I have read through Stuarts articles extensively and have a fair to middlin understanding of my system, but there's a shaky middle ground between applying the knowledge and reading about it!! My shift assist is definately bad, but that seems to be a mute point for the time being!! good to know about my outdrive, but Im curious why she spins fine with the plugs out, just not at all with them in?? I know a quick inspection with the intake off, heads too would tell me, but getting to it isn't very quick. That seems like possibly time better spent on rebuilding another block? Think I'm looking for a small beacon of hope.
 

HT32BSX115

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
Messages
10,083
Re: newbie, hydrolock, n how we are related

but Im curious why she spins fine with the plugs out, just not at all with them in??

What plugs are you referring to?
 

HT32BSX115

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
Messages
10,083
Re: newbie, hydrolock, n how we are related

Spark plugs

Hmm. Well I didn't get that from the context below....

My shift assist is definately bad, but that seems to be a mute point for the time being!! good to know about my outdrive, but Im curious why she spins fine with the plugs out, just not at all with them in??

If you have leaks in the manifolds.......then it wouldn't "spin" with the "plugs" in because of the hydrolock......
 

skideck2

Cadet
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
Messages
29
Re: newbie, hydrolock, n how we are related

well, with boat out of the water , the engine turns via the starter without the spark plugs in, releasing the hydro lock, but when i put the plugs back in,she wont turn at all, almost like a dead battery, or a weak starter. Maybe there is enough water left in the manifolds to re hydro lock it if they are cracked????
 

HT32BSX115

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
Messages
10,083
Re: newbie, hydrolock, n how we are related

well, with boat out of the water , the engine turns via the starter without the spark plugs in, releasing the hydro lock, but when i put the plugs back in,she wont turn at all, almost like a dead battery, or a weak starter. Maybe there is enough water left in the manifolds to re hydro lock it if they are cracked????

When you turn the engine with the plugs out, does water shoot out of the spark plug holes?
 

skideck2

Cadet
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
Messages
29
Re: newbie, hydrolock, n how we are related

Water did come out when I turned it over i then sprayed some dryer/conditioner/rust preventer in the plug holes and let her sit for 24 hours, then reinstalled the plugs but much to my chagrin, the engine would not turn when I put them back in. Engine turned without the plugs in, water shot out. Engine still will not turn with the plugs back in. Sounds pretty odd huh?
 

Idlespeedonly

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 30, 2011
Messages
779
Re: newbie, hydrolock, n how we are related

Did you try turning it the other direction?
 

HT32BSX115

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
Messages
10,083
Re: newbie, hydrolock, n how we are related

Engine still will not turn with the plugs back in. Sounds pretty odd huh?

You just didn't blow all the water out.....

You probably need to just turn it a little longer before you put the plugs in.

This is not your problem though. It's not that the engine won't "turn over" it's the water getting in!


You probably have a failed exhaust manifold or riser(s)

At the bare minimum, you'll need to replace the engine, manifolds and risers.

Not so "free" now I suppose.....


Sorry about that...
 

skideck2

Cadet
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
Messages
29
Re: newbie, hydrolock, n how we are related

Well free minus my 300 plus hours building her out, upholstery, gelcoat, chrome, black walnut...n i get paid well for my man hours....but that's what I was looking for, a good project that i touched every part of. Anyway, I gotta lot into her, an I hunted for this hull shape, so looks like I'll pressure test the block, then strip the manifolds n pressure test them too...just to know. N I'll pick up a block n start a rebuild...engines arent to bad,been playing with em a long time, maybe I'll get lucky and everything inside is straight as an arrow! my big concern is my lack of knowledge of the outdrive, thought maybe that clutch could have been stuck somehow an stopped my engine from turning with the added compression of the plugs being in. N me forcing might have hurt things. guess I'll know tomorrow no teacher like experience.
 

skideck2

Cadet
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
Messages
29
Re: newbie, hydrolock, n how we are related

just as an update- manifolds both seem to hold pressure as of 7:00 a.m. have it up to 50 p.s.i., (i'm assuming they are a very low, 5-10? psi system dependant on speed) so 50 should be good.
and yah pretty sure I got all the water out..I worked on her for awhile, couldn't get any more to come out this morning. reinstalled plugs, same issue.
i've heard of inboards sucking water back even past the flappers if they get hot enough and an exhaust valve is opening. That would explain water coming out of my two center cylinders only, as my flappers are ailing badly. Anyone with such a thing happen?????
 

HT32BSX115

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
Messages
10,083
Re: newbie, hydrolock, n how we are related

i've heard of inboards sucking water back even past the flappers if they get hot enough and an exhaust valve is opening. That would explain water coming out of my two center cylinders only, as my flappers are ailing badly. Anyone with such a thing happen?????
YES .........especially if you shut down while underway well above idle.... But a leak in a riser/manifold and/or gasket will do the same thing


How did you pressure check the manifolds? (flat plate and gasket over the riser mount-point?)

That doesn't tell you if the risers are leaking though. And there's no really easy way to pressure check a riser unless you can plug the cooling water output point and leave them connected to a manifold.
 

skideck2

Cadet
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
Messages
29
Re: newbie, hydrolock, n how we are related

i actually vacuum tested em, plate and 1/2" rubber gasket at mount point, plug in both ends, one with a reverse pressure gauge( it actually reads -35 lbs, equates to 50 pounds positive). holes drilled through plate at each orifice, air tight plug removed and reinstalled at each oriface while watching pressure, still is up to 50p.si. Hope i didn't wast my early morning building something to test em only to find out it doesn't work...
just realized this description is somewhat difficult to understand for other newbies, you seasoned guys can probably figure it out, but let me know if I need to expound!!
 

HT32BSX115

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 8, 2005
Messages
10,083
Re: newbie, hydrolock, n how we are related

I don't see why that wouldn't work. If both the risers and manifolds don't leak, then the only other place where it can is the riser gasket (unless you have a cracked head.... which is not impossible)
 
Top