New to this need help

[HawkDriver]

Hi there, this is my first post on this forum so I'd like to thank everyone for all of the useful information that is provided on this website. I have been poking around and searching the posts for the past couple weeks as I have been pondering my problem. Here goes:<br /><br />The history: I just bought my first boat (1986 Glastron) which came with a 1985 or 86 XP VRO 150 HP Evinrude, Model# E150STLCOS, SER# JO577858. I bought it from a guy who runs a pretty nice home business/boat shop and has been at it for about 20 years. I went and looked at the boat and he said he needed a few days to "get it right", well after a week of phone calls back and forth he said that he has gone through everything that he possibly can think of and he just can't get it to run perfect, so I went down and test drove it and decided that for the price I could live with the little problems it had.<br /><br />The problem: At idle it sputters and seems to idle low and dies occasionally. It hesitates when you get on it right away sometimes, but then smooths out quickly after you get her going. It occasionaly seems to cut out for a second when at or near WOT, but it's almost so fast that you don't notice it then keeps runnin smooth. Runs smooth all across the lake at any throttle setting between just above idle and just below WOT.<br /><br />The guy I bought it from said that he had checked everything in the fuel system and that it was all good. He had removed and cleaned the original carbs, and during the troubleshooting had replaced the carbs with a different set of cleaned carbs and he is convinced that it's not in the carbs. Carbs look nice and clean to me. He said the ignition checked out good too, and he replaced the plugs and all. <br /><br />He thinks that it could possibly be a seal on the crankshaft that could be damaged or missing from a previous rebuild. Does this sound like a crank seal? Seems like that would be a continuous problem all the time unlike this situation. I'm thinking fuel supply/pressure or ignition missing sometimes. I should probably take it in to the pros, just wanted some opinions of what I should check here at home because I work on cars and this is my first boat and I have alot to learn. Thanks again.

 

[ob]

Re: New to this need help

I would hesitate to speculate further without knowing what kind of compression numbers it'll produce.Sounds like it could be anything from carburetor link and sync issue to intermittent ignition problem.<br /><br />The CO in the model number indicates that the engine is a 1985 model.

 

[llfish]

Re: New to this need help

I have a 1987 50 hp Evinrude that did almost the same thing. The only different with mine it would lug down when running at no wake.<br /><br />The problem was one of the power packs was going bad. Just an idea.

 

[Basscat 1]

Re: New to this need help

You need to check the compression first.<br />There are crankshaft seals that are internal that could cause problems at an idle. He may be talking about the seals on the power head, since a two-stroke engine requires an air tight crankcase to run properly. I doubt anybody would leave a seal out after a rebuild.<br />My boat has been doing the same thing as you described. The first thing you may want to do is to invest in a manual. It turns out my problem was the reeds were not sealing. If you are mechanically inclined and have a general set of tools you could probably replace the reeds yourself.

 

[HawkDriver]

Re: New to this need help

Thanks guys.<br /><br />The guy showed me the seals he was referring to on a different crankshaft inside his shop. The ones he is thinking of are on the crankshaft, they look like piston rings. Yes I have been looking around for a manual and will be getting one here shortly. I will check the compression next and report back. <br /><br />The guy told me that it did have good compression when he tested it, but I will do it myself to be sure. He said that they were like 17% or 15% or something like that (can't remember the number for sure), I wasn't sure what exactly he meant by a percentage instead of saying a PSI reading, so I just took his word for it. Maybe he was saying that they were within that percentage of eachother??? I guess that as long as they are all pretty close and like 110 to 150 or so they should be good right? Just a guess, what should they be? Here is where that manual would be super nice.<br /><br />I do have a decently equipped garage and have been a auto/helicopter mechanic for a while, but I am just lacking the experience with these outboard 2 strokes.<br /><br />I am hoping that it's a powerpack issue, but we'll get to that after I comp test it. Thanks guys.

 

[ob]

Re: New to this need help

Healthy compression readings will be within 10 percent.Acceptable readings will be in the high 90's to low 100's.

 

[Basscat 1]

Re: New to this need help

I noticed you live in Killeen. I work at North Ft. Hood. <br />Contact me via email. We have a guy that works here at our shop who lives here in Gatesville. He also works on boats at home part time.

 

[LubeDude]

Re: New to this need help

I would like to welcome you to the Iboats Forum.<br /><br />Also If it was within my powers to do so, I would give you an award for Being the first person I have ever seen to give use this much information right from the start.<br /><br />I dont have any imformation as to fixing your problem, but you are # 1 in my book.

 

[Basscat 1]

Re: New to this need help

HawkDriver, this is where I bought my book for my boat, http://www.alibris.com/search/detai...=8224397620&pqtynew=&page=1&matches=9&qsort=r <br />The book I use is Clymer: Evinrude/Johnson outboard shop manual.<br />50-235 hp. 1973-1984<br />Its an older book, but very thorough. It should cover your boat too.<br /><br />By the way, here is a picture of the rings on a crankshaft that the guy was telling you about.<br />They help to seal the cylinder's off from one another inside the engine block. Once you tear down an engine, it will become more clear. Here is one way of checking those rings. Look down into the carbs while the engine is running; if you notice a sudden fuel spray or more like a burst just as the motor coughs or sputters and then dies, you may have a broken or damaged ring. This happens because the ring is letting pressure in the crankcase bleed over into the another cylider at the same time the reeds are open on the other cylinder.<br />Sounds confusing, but its not.<br />

 

[Solittle]

Re: New to this need help

I'd ask the guy you bought it from if he would give you the original carbs. Your problem description points to a fuel system problem possibly. Carbs may look squeeky clean but have some crud inplaces you can't see. Troubleshoot before you jump into it though.

 

[papasmurf]

Re: New to this need help

You might have a recirculation problem, for the bad idle. Try trimming up your motor a little at a time and see if the idle gets any better. If it does, you have one or more bad recirc check valves.

 

[HawkDriver]

Re: New to this need help

Basscat, thanks and I may end up paying you a visit if I can't get this figured out.<br /><br />Lubedude, no you are #1 in MY book .<br /><br />Alright, so I have my eye on a couple of the clymer manuals on Ebay, so I should have one here in the next week or so. Please bear with me til then I am picking up a compression tester tomorrow and will post the results here asap, but I'm thinking that they are going to be alright. <br /><br />Yes those seals are the ones he was talking about on the crank. After I get the comp readings I will take it out to the lake and check for a couple things that you guys suggested. I'll get back to you with what I find. Should be interesting to start up and run her without the eng cover on. I will be taking the airbox peice off to look for the "bursts". <br /><br />As I recall, it did seem to respond differently and seem to run rougher when I had it trimmed all the way down than it did when it was at full trim up, so I will pay special attention to that. I have been trying to locate these recirculation valves on the engine and still am not sure what exactly they are. I've tried to find some pics or references on the internet but havn't figured it out yet. Again the manual will be real nice.<br /><br />Oh I have so many questions, what's this what's that. So I am really trying to pace myself and be patient for the manual. Thanks guys.

 

[Basscat 1]

Re: New to this need help

You know you can buy the water muffs from Walmart, and put them on the water intake grills and run the motor at home.<br />Good luck taking it out to the lake with all this rain we are getting.

 

[HawkDriver]

Re: New to this need help

Ya, I've got a set of those water muffs. But I tried that only once here and it was so loud that I could tell my neighbors (I should say the entire neighborhood) were about to have a fit. I need a barrel or something. Ya it might be a day or two til I get out on the lake. Will this stuff ever go away?

 

[Solittle]

Re: New to this need help

Hawk - I think I have seen several posts advising against running these motors with the air box cover off. Do a search (red at top of the page)to find out more.

 

[HawkDriver]

Re: New to this need help

Oh, I see, thanks. <br /><br />Going by what Basscat was saying about looking inside the carbs while running I assumed that I would need to take the black plastic cover off to look inside there. Is this not recommended, will it damage something? Thanks for the heads up. I am searching now.

 

[Solittle]

Re: New to this need help

Hawk - I think I have seen several posts advising against running these motors with the air box cover off. Do a search (red at top of the page)to find out more.

 

[Basscat 1]

Re: New to this need help

You can run the motor at home with the covers off, it wont hurt a thing. I wouldn't do it out on the lake, but I have seen some rednecks around here do it. <br />Your right about the noise, its best to have a tank when running your motor to set the idle with the exhaust (prop) under water. I use a fiberglass tank with muffs too.<br />Amen about that rain, I will be glad when it stops. If it dont stop raining tomorrow, I am going to work on my tackle, (indoors) but if it stops raining, I plan on installing the Boyesen reeds on the motor.

 

[ob]

Re: New to this need help

HawkDriver,Overtons sells a gizmo called a "flush muffler" that suppose to dampen down the noise that flushing an outboard motor produces.Sells for around 45 bucks.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: New to this need help

hello<br /> the recirc valves are located on the intake manifold just below the carbs, if they are blown out or clogged itwill cause idle problems. use a syringe with rubbing alchohol and a piece of tubing to test them, liguid should only flow one way. if your carb bowls are plastic and it idles better as you trim it up remove the bowls and chek the aft edge( where the fueltransr port is) with a straight edge. they were known towarb and leak fuelpast the gasket into the float chamber causing rich running, when trimming up the chamber volume will decrease some and the engine will idle better for a while. is the VRO still hooked up? has the pump ever been updated? if its a two or 3 wire pump then update it to the 4 wire. they dont live foever. while I dont normally run them with the airbox off I have never seen a crossflow damaged by it. a looper WILL lean out and may smoke a piston with the cover off.so now after your compression test ya have more things to play with. but dont chase crankshaft seal rings, and be aware that a certain amount of spit back is normal. thats why its collected and routed from the airbox back to the intake.the reeds are opened by the vacum of the piston heading towards the cyl side and held shut by the compression of the piston headed towards the crankcase to compress the mix in the crankcase and force it through the transfer ports when the piston uncovers it. if one ring is bad two cyl will be affected unless its the topor bottom one then you will have a seperate set of problems that may or may not cause a spit back. I personnaly have never seen a seal ring on a crossflow jhonnyrude break. mercs however are a tad different