New to boating! Michigan-area SCUBA diver.

[KD8NPB]

Hello!

I'm fairly new to boating and have a little experience. I live in Southwest Michigan, about 25 miles east of Lake Michigan itself.

I am looking for an inflatable to putter around Michigan's inland lakes and rivers... MAYBE out on Lake Michigan itself on calm days, but never too far from shore. The primary two uses for the boat would be a platform to SCUBA dive from and for fishing. Passenger-wise, I'm looking to transport 2 people comfortably, although capacity for up to 4 (uncomfortably) would be great.

My main setback is my lack of budget. I would like to spend less than $1000, but at the same time, get something that is fairly durable.

It is my understanding that PVC is the best material? The thicker the better?
What should I look for in an inflatable?
What makes / models should I look at?
How hard is it to repair an inflatable? (I'm an experienced mechanic)

Other tidbits, I decided to volunteer for the Coast Guard Auxiliary this year, although I'm still waiting for my paperwork to officially go through so I can begin training. I'm also an amateur radio operator, callsign KD8NPB.

Thank you!

 

[Mlmg]

Re: New to boating! Michigan-area SCUBA diver.

Hello!

I'm fairly new to boating and have a little experience. I live in Southwest Michigan, about 25 miles east of Lake Michigan itself.

I am looking for an inflatable to putter around Michigan's inland lakes and rivers... MAYBE out on Lake Michigan itself on calm days, but never too far from shore. The primary two uses for the boat would be a platform to SCUBA dive from and for fishing. Passenger-wise, I'm looking to transport 2 people comfortably, although capacity for up to 4 (uncomfortably) would be great.

My main setback is my lack of budget. I would like to spend less than $1000, but at the same time, get something that is fairly durable.

It is my understanding that PVC is the best material? The thicker the better?
What should I look for in an inflatable?
What makes / models should I look at?
How hard is it to repair an inflatable? (I'm an experienced mechanic)

Other tidbits, I decided to volunteer for the Coast Guard Auxiliary this year, although I'm still waiting for my paperwork to officially go through so I can begin training. I'm also an amateur radio operator, callsign KD8NPB.

Thank you!

Fellow SW Michigan here as well!

Hypalon is expensive and the best material, but based on research, PVC will suffice in our corner of the world. Just keep the PVC boat out of sunlight..

I just bought an inflatable and looked at the seams (With PVC welded is better than glued), warranty length and what is warrantied, and warranty stations...then size, reviews etc. Ended up with a Zodiac Cadet. Will use on the local lakes and rivers and lake Michigan when calm..

For under $1,000 look at Sea Eagle, saturns, etc. I am sure other more experienced boaters can chime in..

 

[CapeAnn]

Re: New to boating! Michigan-area SCUBA diver.

Hello!

I'm fairly new to boating and have a little experience. I live in Southwest Michigan, about 25 miles east of Lake Michigan itself.

I am looking for an inflatable to putter around Michigan's inland lakes and rivers... MAYBE out on Lake Michigan itself on calm days, but never too far from shore. The primary two uses for the boat would be a platform to SCUBA dive from and for fishing. Passenger-wise, I'm looking to transport 2 people comfortably, although capacity for up to 4 (uncomfortably) would be great.

My main setback is my lack of budget. I would like to spend less than $1000, but at the same time, get something that is fairly durable.

It is my understanding that PVC is the best material? The thicker the better?
What should I look for in an inflatable?
What makes / models should I look at?
How hard is it to repair an inflatable? (I'm an experienced mechanic)

Other tidbits, I decided to volunteer for the Coast Guard Auxiliary this year, although I'm still waiting for my paperwork to officially go through so I can begin training. I'm also an amateur radio operator, callsign KD8NPB.

Thank you!

Personally, I have never found diving off an inflatable too comfortable. Always a bit cramped and getting back on board usually requires taking off gear in the water and handing it to someone on the boat which is a drag. Forget about a diver using ladder as a fully-laden diver isn't exactly feather light and the non-rigid and cylindrical/slippery nature of the tubes can makes for some hilarious post-dive moments.

That said you could take two divers (single bottles) on a 9' inflatable powered by a 6 HP. It would move at a somewhat reasonable speed. Of course, this includes the driver of the boat who stays onboard (no dive gear) to come and get you, or help you off with stuff. You could conceivably take three divers on 9' - 11' footer but it takes a bit of coordination. Getting a inflatable packed to the hilt with diving gear moving faster than putt-putt speed means investing in a larger motor. Definitely something bigger than the previously mentioned 6 hp.

If I were getting a inflatable for diving I would get a wood, or aluminum rigid floor which can take the banging around of tanks, weights and is a reasonable platform should you need to stand. I've use HP air floors too and they're only OK. I like hypalon fabric because it's tougher, but have dived quite well off PVC inflatables. I have noticed that PVC is less tough when you bang it up over many years of use. Patching both tubes in pretty easy - so no biggie there. If you are budget-constrained looking for a boat is best during the early winter months when people who do not use their inflatables much during the summer decide in October/November try to get rid of them before the Christmas holiday. Sometimes you can find really good bargains on boat, engine and trailer combos. Your local Craigslist might have offerings.

I know that some folks here on this forum have some really tricked out inflatables for diving - but they are bigger boats. In the UK where I did a fair amount of diving the standard dive boat is a inflatable RIB with large engines. They haul, get you in and out to local dive sports fast, but no protection from the elements & if you are a gal and need to use the head - forget about it. No privacy at all.

Best with your diving/boating endeavors.

 

[mxcobra]

Re: New to boating! Michigan-area SCUBA diver.

I'm thinking you would be better of with a jon boat.....

 

[KD8NPB]

Re: New to boating! Michigan-area SCUBA diver.

Fellow SW Michigan here as well!

Hypalon is expensive and the best material, but based on research, PVC will suffice in our corner of the world. Just keep the PVC boat out of sunlight..

I just bought an inflatable and looked at the seams (With PVC welded is better than glued), warranty length and what is warrantied, and warranty stations...then size, reviews etc. Ended up with a Zodiac Cadet. Will use on the local lakes and rivers and lake Michigan when calm..

For under $1,000 look at Sea Eagle, saturns, etc. I am sure other more experienced boaters can chime in..

Smaller world than I thought!

I have looked at Saturns, they seem like a fairly high quality build for the price. I've seen some reasonably priced used Zodiac Cadets for sale as well.

Personally, I have never found diving off an inflatable too comfortable. Always a bit cramped and getting back on board usually requires taking off gear in the water and handing it to someone on the boat which is a drag. Forget about a diver using ladder as a fully-laden diver isn't exactly feather light and the non-rigid and cylindrical/slippery nature of the tubes can makes for some hilarious post-dive moments.

That said you could take two divers (single bottles) on a 9' inflatable powered by a 6 HP. It would move at a somewhat reasonable speed. Of course, this includes the driver of the boat who stays onboard (no dive gear) to come and get you, or help you off with stuff. You could conceivably take three divers on 9' - 11' footer but it takes a bit of coordination. Getting a inflatable packed to the hilt with diving gear moving faster than putt-putt speed means investing in a larger motor. Definitely something bigger than the previously mentioned 6 hp.

If I were getting a inflatable for diving I would get a wood, or aluminum rigid floor which can take the banging around of tanks, weights and is a reasonable platform should you need to stand. I've use HP air floors too and they're only OK. I like hypalon fabric because it's tougher, but have dived quite well off PVC inflatables. I have noticed that PVC is less tough when you bang it up over many years of use. Patching both tubes in pretty easy - so no biggie there. If you are budget-constrained looking for a boat is best during the early winter months when people who do not use their inflatables much during the summer decide in October/November try to get rid of them before the Christmas holiday. Sometimes you can find really good bargains on boat, engine and trailer combos. Your local Craigslist might have offerings.

I know that some folks here on this forum have some really tricked out inflatables for diving - but they are bigger boats. In the UK where I did a fair amount of diving the standard dive boat is a inflatable RIB with large engines. They haul, get you in and out to local dive sports fast, but no protection from the elements & if you are a gal and need to use the head - forget about it. No privacy at all.

Best with your diving/boating endeavors.

Yeah, I can already tell I've started poking around at the wrong time of the season.

6 hp is a little anemic for me, realistically, I'm looking at around the 11' mark with at LEAST 7.5 hp.

I'd really like to go for 10 hp, or 15 hp if possible.

Outboards, I will accept none-other than a Honda 4-cycle. I have owned Honda cars and Honda bikes all my life. I know their durability. After getting stranded in the middle of a lake in a friend's fishing boat with a Mercury 2-stroke, I really don't wanna go through that again. Too many quirky issues...I just don't like 2-strokes that much.

I would prefer an aluminum floor if possible, as I can use it as a ground plane for radio antennas, just in case I feel like going "Maritime Mobile" .

I'm thinking you would be better of with a jon boat.....

I like the "anti-sink" capabilities of the inflatable. Plus, they're lightweight, easier to store, easier to transport, and just plain cool.

 

[jondavies]

Re: New to boating! Michigan-area SCUBA diver.

As a long-time diver with an inflatable, perhaps I can give you some advice that you might find helpful.

First, inflatables can make great dive platforms and are very safe designs with tons of inherent buoyancy (unlike most jon boats) but they do have their limitations. If you can live with those limitations, I think you'll enjoy owning one.

Next, I have to say that your budget is too low for what you are looking for, especially if you want a newer Honda motor (note that while Hondas are good motors, no brand is immune to problems -- I was on another diver's boat today where the main Honda motor died. A Honda kicker got us home though).

In my case, I bought a used but good condition 15' Avon (hypalon) inflatable with an 25HP '96 Mercury for $3500. Then I had to spend a little more upgrading to a 40HP Tohatsu because the 25HP wasn't enough to power the boat with gear for two divers. Bear in mind that I take my boat 30 miles offshore to the California Channel Islands. If you're not going far and/or willing to go slower, you may be fine with a smaller boat/engine.

For my purposes, I wouldn't go much smaller than 15' for two divers. You lose a lot of space due to the tubes and so they offer much less usable deck space than comparable rigid hulled boats. However, in the past I made short dive trips in an 8' inflatable with three people on it ... it's possible but it's a lot more difficult and cramped.

Diving off an inflatable (or any small boat for that matter) comes down to organization, cooperation and patience. Have gear assembled in advance. One diver sits back or helps the other get ready. Then the first gets in the water and waits for the other guy to get ready and get in. When exiting the water we take our gear off and hang it from a line and kick into the boat over the tubes. No big deal with fins on.

Like others, I would recommend a hard deck -- such as aluminum. It stands up much better to abuse of weight belts and tanks etc.

Do you know anyone with an inflatable that you can dive from before investing money to see if it's going to work for you? If you come to Southern California, I'll take you out.

Good luck with the diving and the CG Auxiliary.

 

[jondavies]

Re: New to boating! Michigan-area SCUBA diver.

Double post.

 

[Peter_C]

Re: New to boating! Michigan-area SCUBA diver.

I will agree your budget is set way to low as in about 1/3 too little. I stole my 14' Zodiac with trailer and a 40hp motor for a trade of scuba gear equal to $1450. I got the deal because the bottom of the boat glue had failed which is common on PVC boats. The seams on the boat are thermo bonded, but the glue fails at the transom, floor, or both. Spent a lot of time rebuilding the bottom, and fixing other little things. After fixing everything up and adding a nice GPS/sonar unit with maps, I have over $2500 into the boat. Plus another $700 into things like launching wheels, stainless, bilge pumps, etc.

We usually do three divers and often 4 with no issue. I have done 4 divers with double 100's with no issues, it just takes a while to plane. I do not find it hard to dive out of at all. I would much rather dive off my own boat, rather than a commercial boat. Then again my buddies C-Dory has a SIB beat. Both Jon, myself, and a few other folks posted up how we set our boats up in this thread.

FWIW a 2 stroke is more reliable than a 4 stroke, and much cheaper. With that said if you can afford it, a 4 stroke is more desirable.

 

[jondavies]

Re: New to boating! Michigan-area SCUBA diver.

Good advice from Peter.

Another benefit I forgot to mention about an inflatable is that they are incredibly stable, which becomes especially apparent when you're getting geared up. You can move from one side to the other and the boat doesn't rock at all.

 

[Sea Rider]

Re: New to boating! Michigan-area SCUBA diver.

Extremely low budget for a larger diver's inflatable, to find a man who has at least a 380 inflatable in good shape and is desperately needed for fresh cash would be your ELB solution. If you manage to get one for that price, are you going to row it to your diving spot ? what about the engine. What some boaters, divers, fishermen are doing in recession times is getting 2-3 together and buying a sib/engine combo. A one for all, all for one issue!!

Happy Boating

 

[KD8NPB]

Re: New to boating! Michigan-area SCUBA diver.

How much would you pay for this inflatable?

1993 10' Avon, multiple owner, professionally serviced many times, pinhole leak on the starboard pontoon

He's asking $400. It comes with everything pictured.

I'm not adverse to fixing it up a bit. It can't be worse than repairing neoprene. I'm a pretty handy guy who has a lot of experience with professional adhesives (I worked with them for two years) and two part epoxies.

I figure, at the very worst, I have to use a kit of Tuff-Coat on it...which I wouldn't mind, because I would prefer a red/orange inflatable anyways.

 

[CapeAnn]

Re: New to boating! Michigan-area SCUBA diver.

How much would you pay for this inflatable?

1993 10' Avon, multiple owner, professionally serviced many times, pinhole leak on the starboard pontoon

He's asking $400. It comes with everything pictured.

I'm not adverse to fixing it up a bit. It can't be worse than repairing neoprene. I'm a pretty handy guy who has a lot of experience with professional adhesives (I worked with them for two years) and two part epoxies.

I figure, at the very worst, I have to use a kit of Tuff-Coat on it...which I wouldn't mind, because I would prefer a red/orange inflatable anyways.

Hard call. For another 600-800 bucks you could get another inflatable with a wood bottom + warranty vs. worrying when the fabric will fail, plus time and money on fixing an older inflatable. Just as a example of some sales at Defender: http://search.defender.com/?Action=...j0yfg&SI=37bf8de1-b384-4eb7-a41e-16b54de916ef

That said - it does have a deck which can take scuba tank beatings + a gas tank which retails for probably a 100.00. Also, from my experience you could get three people on there. Two with tanks and one as a driver/boat minder.

 

[KD8NPB]

Re: New to boating! Michigan-area SCUBA diver.

Hard call. For another 600-800 bucks you could get another inflatable with a wood bottom + warranty vs. worrying when the fabric will fail, plus time and money on fixing an older inflatable. Just as a example of some sales at Defender: http://search.defender.com/?Action=...j0yfg&SI=37bf8de1-b384-4eb7-a41e-16b54de916ef

That said - it does have a deck which can take scuba tank beatings + a gas tank which retails for probably a 100.00. Also, from my experience you could get three people on there. Two with tanks and one as a driver/boat minder.

I don't value my time very highly, so a penny saved is a penny earned in my eyes.

It would be nice if there were some long-term reviews of the Tuff-Coat paint/sealant....curious how it does after 5 years / 10 years.

I thought the same thing about the gas tank!

Research reveals it is a 94-95 Avon SS315...which are HYPALON! Also, rated up to 15 hp, which is great, because I'm actually leaning towards an 80s Mercury 9.8 or 15. I figure, I have some wrench time with the Mercury 15 already...albeit, it was forced and in the middle of a large inland lake! Plus, the power to weight ratio would be a tad better.

We'll see though.

I'm going to look at it on Friday to see if the coating is peeling or cracking at all. It was kept indoors and used sparingly apparently.

 

[KD8NPB]

Re: New to boating! Michigan-area SCUBA diver.

Well, I went to look at the Avon. The material is in really good shape!

He has owned it for about 10 years and it has always been indoors. It hasn't seen much use.

The good:
Inspections reveals that the material is all clean and tight.
No obvious UV damage
No obvious repairs
No exterior wear
Wood transom shows barely any wear
The bottom of the boat is SOLID, material shows absolutely no signs of delamination or organic material from leaving it in the wear (So his story holds true!)
The leak is so slow, it took a week of being inflated to be noticed...I couldn't even find it!

Observed delamination at:
Scuff strip, worst towards the ends. Towards the middle, 1/2" in has delaminated
Some of the reinforcing material strips over the seams, again, 1/4" to 1/2" delaminated
The "AVON" labels
Some of the handles / oar hooks, delaminated 1/8" to 1" delaminated

As I may have mentioned, I am a broke college student with a lot of know how and free time. I'm not adverse to repairing the boat, it doesn't seem like a tough job, just time consuming.

What do you think the boat's value realistically is? $300?

 

[Captain Shikaboo]

Re: New to boating! Michigan-area SCUBA diver.

Ahoy fellow Michigander, did you get the raft?

When I was in college I was in the same situation. I started really, really cheap. I learned a lot about inflatables. More than I wanted to know! I've bought and sold so many rafts.. I used to buy a junker, low ball the guy with cash in hand and put some elbow grease into it, use it for awhile to learn more, then sell em to make a few bucks. My first raft was a sevylor supercaravelle I had when I was a kid. I bent up some galvanized pipe to make a frame and strapped a few different motors to it. I dove off it, fished, floated rivers. I filled it with water on the Rogue and Pine. Had to patch it once a week it seemed, but it was a BLAST! Worked my way up to some really nice rafts. I enjoy the adventure of them more than my glass and aluminum boats. Some good advice from the guys above. Just keep an eye on the boats capacity limits. You'll be suprsed how quick things add up in weight. Best advice I can give you since you're new to it, get to know your craft before you start diving from it. Get to know the MI boating rules. I am now good friends with a DNR diver because he used to bust my chops! Oh, and don't store it in the sun if you can help it.

Hope you find a keeper, and I hope you have a ton of fun and be safe!

 

[KD8NPB]

Re: New to boating! Michigan-area SCUBA diver.

Ahoy fellow Michigander, did you get the raft?

When I was in college I was in the same situation. I started really, really cheap. I learned a lot about inflatables. More than I wanted to know! I've bought and sold so many rafts.. I used to buy a junker, low ball the guy with cash in hand and put some elbow grease into it, use it for awhile to learn more, then sell em to make a few bucks. My first raft was a sevylor supercaravelle I had when I was a kid. I bent up some galvanized pipe to make a frame and strapped a few different motors to it. I dove off it, fished, floated rivers. I filled it with water on the Rogue and Pine. Had to patch it once a week it seemed, but it was a BLAST! Worked my way up to some really nice rafts. I enjoy the adventure of them more than my glass and aluminum boats. Some good advice from the guys above. Just keep an eye on the boats capacity limits. You'll be suprsed how quick things add up in weight. Best advice I can give you since you're new to it, get to know your craft before you start diving from it. Get to know the MI boating rules. I am now good friends with a DNR diver because he used to bust my chops! Oh, and don't store it in the sun if you can help it.

Hope you find a keeper, and I hope you have a ton of fun and be safe!

Sure did! And I love it.

I took it out today on a big pond today to try it out. With no outboard and no benches, 4 x ~175 lb males + fishing gear, we fit pretty comfortably.

Also, my inflation / deflation has revealed that the scuff strip is entirely delaminated in spots. However, everything else is perfect.

The material is also stained with age in spots. I picked up some RV Roof cleaner (Concentrate!) and scrubbed with a rag...unfortunately, the stains won't come out.

In hindsight, I didn't really have a place to put the boat. So, I made a davit system out of pulleys / rope from Lowes and hung it from the rafters in the carport! It's outside, but it's completely shaded 100% of the time.

I'm a member of the Coast Guard Auxiliary 33-08. I'm a rare Michigan person who actually has passed a boating safety class, but doesn't own a jetski. It was part of my BQ for the CGA.

 

[KD8NPB]

Re: New to boating! Michigan-area SCUBA diver.

Pictures of the beast! Plus my awesome storage mount in the carport. It keeps it out of the sun, and keeps it out of the way!

 

[Genevieve84]

Re: New to boating! Michigan-area SCUBA diver.

I know that some folks here on this forum have some really tricked out inflatables for diving - but they are bigger boats.

 

[CapeAnn]

Re: New to boating! Michigan-area SCUBA diver.

Your beast looks good! I hope you get a great diving season out of her. If you need tips on the diving stuff there are a few of us here who are avid divers...so we can assist on that end too! A tip - spearguns and stilleto high heels are not an inflatable boats' best friend.

Best,

CapeAnn