New Stator Time???

[socalijoey]

Hello all - I have a 1993 Force 120 on my Bayliner 1800 and overall, the engine has been pretty good to me. I do normal maintenance on it such as changing plugs, lower unit fluid, and water pumps. I just recently starting taking the boat out in the ocean but I don't think it has anything to do with my problem...OK here goes... <br /> <br />A few trips ago, I took the boat out in the ocean on a fairly long run of 17 miles one day traveling at like 3000 RPMs. After about 15 miles, the motor started puttering pretty bad like it was fouling or out of gas. I had plenty of gas, my temp was fine. I turned the engine off and let it sit a while. It didn't really want to start back up easily. I have dual marine batteries that I charge every time I go out so I would think I should have plenty of juice but it seemed like it was cranking VERY slow. It was acting like I had a dead battery. Well I finally got it running and limped it back to the harbor. Got it home and changed plugs which seemed to be coasted with gas/oil like there wasn't enough spark maybe? I took the boat out again after that and it ran fine. However I do still occasionally get the slow start acting like the batteries are dead. When I brought the boat home, I hooked it back up to the charger. The little meter on it told me that they needed to be charged. <br /> <br />I've been lurking around on the net and ran across some articles something about a new red stator for these engines. Can someone tell me anything about these? I looked at my stator and its not red. Do you think with my symptoms, that I may have a stator going bad? Is there a way to test mine? I don't have any special tools, just a standard volt/amp meter. I replaced the little square clear coated igniter/regular box thing a while back because my buddy hooked a battery up backwards and it smoked it. Since then I have gotten new batteries and it runs fine for the most part. <br /> <br />Sorry for such a long post, just wanted to give some history and detail. <br /> <br />Thanks for you help, <br /> <br />Joey <br /> <br />Joey805@webjoey.com

 

[rodbolt]

Re: New Stator Time???

hello<br /> dude you win a prize for the longest lived black stator I think.<br /> I would change it if it were me.<br /> but first make sure that the slow starting is not due to a piston sticking due to carbon or thermostat or pressure valves . I think your 120 is new enough that the valve was eliminated but check with a parts manual. I was the lead tech at a force merc dealer in Norfolk Va during the early 90's and we saw a tremendous black stator failure rate on mercs and force motors with merc ignitions. merc always said "no we have no stator problems" but I think they are on revision 26 or so.<br /> good luck and keep posting

 

[socalijoey]

Re: New Stator Time???

Well i'm sure I need to decarb the engine and I plan on it. How much can i get the stator for? Do you know offhand and are they hard to change?

 

[rodbolt]

Re: New Stator Time???

hello<br /> easy to change . hard to buy they are about 400 dollars or so for the kit. the instructions come with the kit and the kit fits many engines so expect extra parts and wires. you will need a puller and bolts. I think that year had metric bolts its an easy job put you really need a puller and a strap wrench or flywheel holding tool.<br /> good luck and keep posting

 

[socalijoey]

Re: New Stator Time???

Ewww that doesnt sound like fun. Where can I get a part number of the stator I need? My serial number of the engine is 03020389

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: New Stator Time???

Service Bulletin 96-1. Looked at that sucker so many times it's burned in my retinas. That's the Merc bulletin number, not sure if it's the Force bulletin number, but it's the same information.<br /><br />But that won't cause your slow cranking. You're not charging, the starter motor needs repair (likely) because of corrosion, or you have a bad cylinder. Maybe a bad connection between the batteries and the motor. The negative cable has a spot on the block near the starter to connect it, but it's best to connect it to the starter frame itself.<br /><br />If that ain't it, I'd have the starter looked at. It has two sets of brushes. Any rust and they'll stick, and the grounded brushes like to corrode. If you lose continuity to just one brush, it'll have half-power.

 

[Joey1805]

Re: New Stator Time???

The starter could be causing the slow starts. It makes sense but it doesnt happen all the time, thats the weird thing. When the boat is running, its fast and very responsive. Just starts up very slow sometimes. How can I test this starter? Do they make a rebuild kit for it?<br /><br />Thanks,<br />Joey

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: New Stator Time???

I don't know if they offer kits, but you can get a brush set if you need. They're pretty simple to work on. Only need a few common tools. Sounds to me like one of the grounded brushes is corroded where it screws to the base. That happens a lot. Most of the time you can clean it all up and put it back together and your'e fine. Sometimes the ring connector on that brush burns off and you have to replace it.

 

[Joey1805]

Re: New Stator Time???

Hey Willy - I took some pictures of the starter after I pulled it apart. Take a look and tell me what you think. I did notice a crack along the side of where one of the brushes go, you can see it in a few of the pics.<br /><br />Here is a link:<br /> http://www.webjoey.com/boat/page_01.htm <br /><br />Thanks,<br />Joey

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: New Stator Time???

So much for my theory. I'm not seeing anything there I'd be concerned about. That crack seems to be in a pretty inconsequential location. Snug-up the screws that ground two brushes to be safe and put it back together. Otherwise I'd make sure your cable connections are tight and clean on the motor and battery. The armature looks okay from the pictures, but if it stinks really strong and smokey, it could be cooked. A slightly smokey smell wouldn't be unusual.<br /><br />If you have a voltmeter, check the charging system next time you run it. Check the voltage at the battery. It should read about 12.5 volts at rest with a charged battery. With the motor running, the voltage should rise a bit. More RPMs should mean a bit more voltage. If it stays the same or drops some, you'll need to find out why. Usually a rectifier or rectifier/regulator, whichever yours has.<br /><br />Otherwise, do a compression check to see if there may be a bad cylinder that's binding, and check the gearlube. If a driveshaft bearing is going bad, it could cause your problem. If the gearlube isn't highly metallic, that would indicate that it's not going bad.<br /><br />One last thing. The shaft is quite long out of the starter and they like to bend. If it's bent slightly, it's okay. Too much and it will bind on the flywheel and that could also cause your problem. Good luck.<br /><br />Excellent pictures, by the way!

 

[Coach]

Re: New Stator Time???

Back to the stator...<br />I have a '95 Force and just had to replace my original black stator. Had to bring it to the shop due to lack of time. But, after I had the guy put a new one on, it was still running bad. Long story short...don't forget to retime the thing. You would think a certified mechanic would remember this. Good luck!

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: New Stator Time???

Stator does not affect timing. Only makes electricity. The trigger can easily be swung out of the way without disturbing the linkage. If the linkages are left undisturbed, there's no reason to re-time it. If the trigger, flywheel, or switchbox are replaced, or the linkages are disturbed, then the timing needs to be re-set.