New person wanting to buy a canoe

[dhollin]

A buddy of mine and I want to start canoeing the local lakes and rivers in South Carolina. Neither of us really know anything about boating past what we learned in Boy Scouts. He is pushing for a hard shell canoe, I like the idea of an inflatable one. I think he wants a hard shell one because that is what you picture when you say canoe. I want an inflatable one, because it seems easier to store and transport. But really I do not think it matters.
Can anyone suggest any good inflatable canoe/boat that will not die on us in the river? What should we look for in an inflatable? What should we look for in a hard shell one? We are not doing any crazy whitewater, I am just worried about rocks and what have you. South Carolina rivers are not know for being clear of crap.

thank you for your help and time.
David

 

[lncoop]

Re: New person wanting to buy a canoe

I'm not aware of any inflatable canoes on the market. There may be some, but as far as I know the closest thing available is an IK, or inflatable kayak. There are several top quality IKs on the market, some of them tandem, but IMO an IK would be a bad choice for you and your buddy. They're very susceptible to wind, pricey, have a finite life, and are really designed for whitewater, not lakes and lazy rivers. There are other considerations too, but I won't get into those unless you want. For a few hundred bucks you should be able to find a perfectly serviceable tandem canoe in the fifteen to sixteen foot range that would serve you well in the flat and class I water you plan to paddle. Look for a boat made of Royalex or aluminum. Royalex is lighter and quieter than aluminum and doesn't get as hot, but while extremely durable, is not as tough as aluminum. Used aluminum canoes are generally cheaper and in better condition than used Royalex ones because they don't require any care. Pretty much any aluminum canoe will be fine. For a good Royalex boat look for a Mad River or Wenonah to name a couple. There are others, but those are the two most common.

I have a sixteen foot Mad River Explorer and am very happy with it. It's extremely versatile, has very good initial and secondary stability, and can carry a good load. I bought it to camp out of and take my daughter paddling. It will be hers when she's older. Old Town canoes are fine as well, and there are plenty for sale in the secondary market. Just be aware that they'll be made of polyethylene, which is fine but heavy. If you go with a plastic boat (Royalex or Polyethylene) look out for oil canning, which is a hull that is puckered upward from being stored in the sun. Those are just some general thoughts. I can get more specific if you'd like. Welcome aboard.

 

[lncoop]

Re: New person wanting to buy a canoe

I stand corrected. Here's a really cool IC, but you'll have to break out the wallets.
http://www.aire.com/aire/products/default.aspx?id=205

 

[jasoutside]

Re: New person wanting to buy a canoe

Incoop has you covered really super well there ^^^^^^ (man that guy is stinkin sharp)

I'll add to his comment regarding Polyethylene...

I have an Old Town Discovery CrossLink built boat (bout the same as Polyethylene) and it's awesome. Handles really well in nearly all water conditions, totally indestructible (yah, I've tried). I hit it with Armor All now and then and it looks great for a 15 year old boat. It's heavy though.

Anyway, what kind paddling do you plan on doing? What's your budget?

Cheers

 

[lncoop]

Re: New person wanting to buy a canoe

Aw shux.:redface: Did you look at that IC? Aire builds some quality stuff.

 

[dhollin]

Re: New person wanting to buy a canoe

Well what started this saw

http://www.stansport.com/v2/product.php?product_id=947

An inflatable boat on Woot.com

It was in the 200-300 dollar range. But then we talked about would it survive being in a river. And well my buddy has always wanted a canoe. So I am going to start looking for a used canoe, and hopefully find one for not a bad price.

One question though, is it OK just to tie it to the top of a car, if the car has a rack on the roof? He has a pontiac vibe, which is a very small suv.

Thank you
David

 

[jasoutside]

Re: New person wanting to buy a canoe

One question though, is it OK just to tie it to the top of a car, if the car has a rack on the roof? He has a pontiac vibe, which is a very small suv.

You bet it's ok

 

[lncoop]

Re: New person wanting to buy a canoe

You bet it's ok

Yep. That's what it's there for. When the time comes we can help you with the best way to do it.

 

[dhollin]

Re: New person wanting to buy a canoe

Is a Dagger Reflection 16ft canoe a good one to start out with?

A guy has it for $400 and he is close to where I live.

Is this good for two fat guys to canoe in rivers and lakes?

Thanks for the help.

David

 

[jasoutside]

Re: New person wanting to buy a canoe

Yah prologue but what's the condition? Oil canned? Sun damage (UV)?

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: New person wanting to buy a canoe

My first canoe was fiberglass, it was a Wenonah 17' long, 37" wide and was extremely stable.....and extremely heavy (well over 100#). I hauled it everywhere on the top of my cavalier and an RX7. the canoe was about 4' longer than the RX7. I sold it for a used grumman canoe (aluminum) that was about 70# that I could portage myself.

I would look for something that is large enough for two people and gear, yet light enough that you can handle yourself.

 

[lncoop]

Re: New person wanting to buy a canoe

A Dagger Reflection is a good "jack of all trades" kind of boat and would work well for you guys, and $400 sounds reasonable provided it's in decent condition with no oil canning or major issues. That said, there are a couple of things you need to be aware of. First, I believe the Reflection came with a shallow arch hull. That's a great design for maneuverability but can feel "tippy" because it does secondary stability a lot better than initial. What that means is this: When you're sitting in the canoe drinking a beer and your buddy suddenly leans to one side or sets the hook on a five pound smallie it will feel like the canoe's about to tip over. It isn't, but you'll swear it is. What prevents that feeling is initial stability, which isn't typically associated with a shallow arch hull. Now, if you're paddling the same canoe through some standing waves and it leans to one side it will only lean so far then stop (up to a point of course). That's secondary stability. What you really want in a boat for two wide bodied fishermen is a canoe that has both of those characteristics. IMO that would be a shallow V hull canoe like the Mad River Explorer. The other thing to note is the Reflection will have an asymmetrical hull which will make it track really straight but will present problems if one of you ever tries to solo from the bow. Again, that's not necessarily a bad thing but is definitely something to consider.

I know that's a long-winded response, but those things are really important considerations for big guys in canoes. Also, if you don't mind my asking, how big are we talking? Most canoe seats are only built to handle 280 or less, so if you do go with a plastic boat don't forget to factor that in. (It's not a capacity issue with the boat, only the seats.) So, now when you look at a boat you can cause sellers' eyes to bug out by asking how they like the shallow arch hull or asking them how the secondary stability is LOL.

 

[dhollin]

Re: New person wanting to buy a canoe

Ok two questions. One weight...I weight around 225 lbs and my buddy probably. Does that change what we should be looking for? Also how do you tell if a canoe has damage, like Oil canned? Sun damage (UV)? i can guess sun damage is that it is faded. But I do not know what Oil canned means. Is there any thing else we should look for with buying used?

I also wanted to say thanks alot, you all have been a great help.

David

 

[jasoutside]

Re: New person wanting to buy a canoe

That's two solid doods in a canoe. You may like something bigger/longer (more displacement).

Oil canning looks like the hull, especially at midships, is squished/caved in. I find that mostly happens when folks load their canoe incorrectly on the roof of their car, crank it down way too tight, and then drive around in the sun all summer long. It just kinda reshapes/molds with the heat of the sun and pressure of the straps.

The sun/UV eats boats. In most cases folks just leave em along the side of their house flipped up side down. If it sits in the sun, and bakes, summer after summer, it can turn that boat kinda brittle and the overall strength can be compromised.

 

[lncoop]

Re: New person wanting to buy a canoe

I think y'all should grab that Reflection if it's in good shape as already described. Once you get accustomed to that hull design you'll really like it. You'll even be able to do weekend camping float trips in it once you master it.