New Orleans Evacuation Plan

roscoe

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Louisiana disaster plan, pg 13, para 5 , dated 01/00<br /><br />'The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating'...<br /><br /><br />Yet all the school and municipal buses are still sitting in a parking lot in New Orleans. <br /><br />??
 

jtexas

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Re: New Orleans Evacuation Plan

good job on the research, there roscoe. Being as I spent the first half of my life in Louisiana, I'll try to answer your question. However, note that I'm not claiming to be an expert. To me it's crystal clear from the excerpt you provided that the "individuals who lack transportation" are themselves responsible for obtaining the school and municipal buses, and driving themselves to safety. Thus, relieving the state and local governments from any responsibility.<br /><br />Hope I was able to shed some light on your question.
 

roscoe

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Re: New Orleans Evacuation Plan

I wonder why the public was not told of the buses, or why they weren't driven into the poor areas to haul people out?<br /><br />There was a mandatory evac ordered by the mayor.<br />He should have made the buses available and put HIS plan into action.<br /><br />Seems that would have helped.<br /><br />I hope the mayor's opposition uses the pictures of all those buses sitting in a parking lot in their campaign.<br /><br /> http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050901/480/flpc21109012015
 

JB

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Re: New Orleans Evacuation Plan

The problem with that plan is that it has no mechanism for blaming FEMA and GWB.
 

POINTER94

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Re: New Orleans Evacuation Plan

JB,<br /><br />Why waste time justifying the blame, just blame him. He is responsible for this theory of global warming, and the hurricane itself. Fun with science.
 

KaGee

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Re: New Orleans Evacuation Plan

Like I said in another post... all they needed to do was implement the same plan they used to get these same people to the polls last November.
 

rodbolt

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Re: New Orleans Evacuation Plan

here is some interesting reading on the events the day before the storm hit. they did everything by the numbers but the math was just all wrong. kinda like when Jim Cantoe was in nags head for isabelle. he was bragging about being behind a 15ft high protective dune and in the same clip was talking about 25ft waves and a 20ft surge. do the math. they lost the camera van but luckily they got away when the dune was breached a few min later.<br /> http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/08/28/hurricane.katrina/?section=cnn_topstories <br /> its incredible that knowing the levees with some 10ft or so shorter than the predicted surge more folks did not leave. and most of ths was known on saturday as well. the problem is the same as it is here. no one wants to go out on a limb and tell folks to leave 48 hours before the predicted landfall cause if the track wobbles and it does not hit with catastrophic damage or retreats back to sea with no damage all look silly and folks complain their vacations were ruined. so they wait till there is no time and holler go. only problem is there is no place to "go" here. its almost a 4 hour drive to the nearest interstate in good weather and moderate traffic. or you can attempt to get out Via 64 or 664 in virginia but the only way is across the james by bridge or tunnel and they are bailing as well. so far there has not been a good well written evac plan for this area. they just say go. and the grid lock begins. wasnt it hurricane floyd that people sat as long as 18 hours on I40 ?
 

ErikDC

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Re: New Orleans Evacuation Plan

Check me if I'm wrong but if anything positive can come out of this tragedy, it's that FEMA and all related agencies from federal to local will be completely rewriting their manuals. Something went seriously wrong.
 

Ralph 123

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Re: New Orleans Evacuation Plan

Why didn't Bush swoop down from the Heavens and drive those damn busses and save people? Where was he? Playing guitar in California?? How outrageous!<br /><br />
capt.flpc21109012015.hurricane_katrina_flpc211.jpg
 

ErikDC

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Re: New Orleans Evacuation Plan

Ralph, that's an easy one. Do you really think that President Bush has a CDL? :D ;)
 

rodbolt

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Re: New Orleans Evacuation Plan

hahahaahah a CDL<br /> thats funny:)<br />but the ball got dropped badly. seems the yes men in the homland bungling dept have made some serious errors in thinking,planning and getting the plan into action. and like the sub that ran into the uncharted underground mountain last year. its still GW's responsibility. do ya think the helmsman on the sub was relieved of command? or the navigator, or the sonar tech or the officer of the deck? nope it was the capt. even though the charts the capt was given were out of date and inaccurate. in a chain of command the capt bears the ultimate responsibility. thats why the capt on my ship was so adamant on training and if you could not cut it he would quietly have you transferred. for the most part bush hired the heads of FEMA and homeland security. as well as some other depts. so therefore the ultimate responsibility of those depts actions or inactions rests on the appointer, and in this case its the sitting president. would not matter if it was clinton,reagan or whomever. sooner or later the end responsibility ends up at the white house. the president, any president appoints various people to various positions to perform specific tasks, he grants them the autority to carry out those tasks. so if the task is not carried out, even though the autority was delegated the responsibility cannot. thats why its critical to insure the correct persons can perform the delegated tasks. seems we have spent a lot of money since 9/11 and have not gotten much for it other than some political back slapping, a few awards given out for wonderful plans, but no can do and can do now leadership from various depts.about the biggest reason I felt the feds should have done more sooner and faster is the levee system there is charged to the US army corps of engineers. as are certain other spots in the states. its technically the Corps job to insure the safty and integrity of the levee system. so a ball got dropped. in some ways its a moot point. it is what it is and no amount of finger pointing, ducking, dodging and backpedaling will change it. what can be changed is the personel in charge, the plans and the implementation procedures. but I would start with the personel issue first. seems from what I can find none of the 11 pre-positioned disater pods that our taxdollars so generously purchased for homeland bungling has been moved yet. the excuse is still no one has called.<br /> buearacracy at its fineist :) :) . I did not trust it when the homeland thing was consolidated into such a large govt entity and trust it less now. the larger it gets the slower it reacts.
 

ErikDC

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Re: New Orleans Evacuation Plan

I think the responsibility lies with FEMA and no one else. To blame President Bush, Congress or any other elected official is absolutely ludicrous. The Director of FEMA said that they had no idea how bad the sitution was until last Thursday morning. In the meantime, we were all watching the disintegrating situation LIVE on TV. FEMA dropped the ball. Big time.
 

SpinnerBait_Nut

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Re: New Orleans Evacuation Plan

Dang rodbolt, how about some air so I can read what you are writing.
 

Ralph 123

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Re: New Orleans Evacuation Plan

FEMA is only a support agency. Feds have no right to take over anything in a State w/o being asked. The primary responsibility always has and always will lie with State and local officials. How soon we all forget the heck Jeb caught when he didn;t react fast enough to a storm a few years ago.
 

rodbolt

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Re: New Orleans Evacuation Plan

Ralph<br /> gotta agree with ya on the jeb thing. <br /> That should have been a lesson in planning as well. FEMA is now under Homeland security which is appointed by and the direct responsibility to the president of the united states. by monday afternoon, long before the levee broke it was obvious to all concerned it was a catastrophe far beyond any state or local stuff. instead of waiting FEMA should have stepped in and found the govenors. I am sure they have the address. seems the USCG did not wait for a hand delivererd RSVP to the event.<br /> thats why I contacted my sister in MS, a cousin in MS a cousin in AL a few friends in lower AL and my mom in mobile and warned them to get out.<br /><br /> and I seem to recall the govenors of LA and MS asking for help on monday. <br /> seems private sar teams from other areas beat the feds in by a few days. <br /> <br /> Everyone was so focused on new orleans they forgot the wind speed and direction field of the entire gulf of mexico. <br /> To anyone that has to deal with wind driven coastal floods it was obvious what was going to happen to the westFL,AL,MS and LA coast.<br /> Even president Bush said, and then reiterated, that the FED reaction was not acceptable. now whether he will accept the responsibilty for his dept heads actions or backpedal will remain to be seen. <br /> but a better plan to evacuate the coastal/low areas of the MS,AL and LA coast needs to be thought of.<br /> there is a lot more than just new orleans involved,altough NO will be the most costly to rebuild.<br /> I will say that the levee problem was not of any one administrations making but complaceny on about 30 years worth of administrations both republican and democrat. all share the blame. <br /><br />erikdc<br /> I am not blaming the president, but blame or not does not relieve him of the responsibilty of the action or lack of action of the dept heads he appointed. thats the whole reason to have appointments.<br /> me and a few others that have lived in this area, as well as family since sometime about 1750, used to attend the local EOC meetings. it got to stupid to attend. lots of awards and 2 day conferences at motels with breakfasts but the EOC personel were clueless. kinda like the kitty hawk cop shop and the two new rescue boats, one is a 30hp tohatsu jet the other a wave runner. I have towed the wave runner once and the tohatsu once. several crabbers have also towed them. we tried to tell the over educated yankee transplant that in the sound its very shallow and full of milfoil and jets wont work. now we have 2 trailer queens cause after the repairs due to the overheats they quit using them.<br /> so evacuation planning needs to start with local inputs first. not just sitting with a map and a Phd in transportation.<br />read some of the picayune times and review some of the CNN interviews with various officials and govenors. some were saying as early as saturday afternoon to evacuate.
 

jtexas

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Re: New Orleans Evacuation Plan

FEMA is under the dept of homeland security & must take its direction from them. Before DHS they were independent & could take action.<br /><br />DHS is claiming that the governor didn't make an "Official Request," - kind of like, you didn't fill in the correct form, try again.<br /><br />I would have liked to have seen the President observing the area sooner, say, Tuesday. I doubt if he could "swoop down from the Heavens and drive those damn busses," but he does have a bit of influence. That shouldn't have been necessary, though, IMHO. As it happened, he waited a few days; he apologized & I take him at his word. I believe he's a sincere man if not articulate.
 

Ralph 123

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Re: New Orleans Evacuation Plan

which is appointed by and the direct responsibility to the president of the united states. by Monday afternoon, long before the levee broke it was obvious to all concerned it was a catastrophe far beyond any state or local stuff
Not to all the people I saw dancing on Bourbon street Monday night or all the talking heads on TV who all talked about how NO had dodged the big one again... Not to the people looting the place clean Tuesday when the water was only up to their ankles. Not to the locals who had no idea where the water was coming from (they said is was peculating up from the ground). On and on and on. <br /><br />Primary responsibility before during and after was with the Local and State governments. Not the Feds who don't know one tenth about their area than the locals do. <br /><br />The National Guard is under the sole command of the Governor. They weren't called in. They waited on the outskirts for orders that never arrived. According to an investigation by Col David Hunt on O'Reilly, it was either because of a communication problem and/or indecision.<br /><br />Like O"Reilly said the other night, let this be a lesson to all. If you expect the Government to take care of you, you will likely be very disappointed.<br /><br />
he apologized & I take him at his word
He did? When? Where? Source?<br />I heard him say it was unacceptable which he clarified to mean the rampant lawlessness. The Federal government has ZERO authority to provide law enforcement inside the United States. That is the sole domain of the States and civil law enforcement and can, by law, be augmented under special circumstances by the Nation Guard under the sole discretion and control of the State Governor.<br /><br />This nation was founded and based upon a separation of powers and federalism which can not be breached except under very specific circumstances and conditions and most be done legally.
 

Ralph 123

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Re: New Orleans Evacuation Plan

FEMA is part of the Department of Homeland Security's Emergency Preparedness and Response Directorate. FEMA has more than 2,600 full time employees. They work at FEMA headquarters in Washington D.C., at regional and area offices across the country, the Mount Weather Emergency Operations Center, and the National Emergency Training Center in Emmitsburg, Maryland. FEMA also has nearly 4,000 standby disaster assistance employees who are available for deployment after disasters.
Hum, so people actually think an organization with only a few thousand people have PRIMARY responsibility for disaster relief?
 
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