NEW HONDA BF 225 TOO HEAVY?

MIKENVAHBEACH

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Apr 20, 2003
Messages
84
I am repowering my 1989 22' Pursuit, I currently have a 1989 yamaha 225 2-stroke on the boat(400lbs). I want to repower with a honda BF225(600lbs) and if they both fit, also add a new 15hp 2-stroke(100lbs) This is 300lbs which seems like a big increase in weight. The boat is rated for a 235 hp motor, but how does that relate to weight? Anyone know if I'm over weight with this new set-up? Is there anything I can do to make this work?
 

MajBach

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
564
Re: NEW HONDA BF 225 TOO HEAVY?

Wow, that is a big weight increase! I don't have experience with such big motors, but as I read someone suggest here, add the weight to the back of the boat with removable weights and see how big a diff it makes. Couple of 100 # bags of chicken feed would work perfect.
 

Skinnywater

Commander
Joined
Mar 7, 2002
Messages
2,065
Re: NEW HONDA BF 225 TOO HEAVY?

Or have a slightly larger then average guy stand on the transom.
 

MIKENVAHBEACH

Petty Officer 3rd Class
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Apr 20, 2003
Messages
84
Re: NEW HONDA BF 225 TOO HEAVY?

The shop did not seem to think this set up is a problem, of course they're are trying to sell motors. Well the kicker is just clamped on and if the additional weight seems to be a problem then I can start by removing the kicker, also the shop stated they would take the kicker back and give me a refund. I should be able to test it this weekend I'll let ya know. If the weight is a problem can I move my batteries? They gotta weigh 30-40lbs each? Does anyone have any other ideas to lighten the load?
 

MajBach

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
564
Re: NEW HONDA BF 225 TOO HEAVY?

I always hate the idea of removing what may be essentials just to lighten the load. I guess running with a partial tank of gas is one place to start. On my set-up (17' DC with Honda 90), I too find the stern to be really heavy with the motor, a full tank of gas, my starter battery and a tool box in the stern. Things really get noticeable when there's a third person sitting on the back bench. But with a short boat like my own, a third or fourth person has to sit at the back as opposed to the rear row of bucket seats (these are useless as there is no legroom on such a small boat). Also can't really sit in the bow as again, a small boat = bumpy ride. I find if I fill my front live well (works out to at least 200 lbs plus - 30 gal/Amer), the ride drastically improves. There is no loss in performance as you might think with the added weight. The boat planes much quicker and tracks truer and top speed seems unaffected. You might want to try this.
 

MIKENVAHBEACH

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Apr 20, 2003
Messages
84
Re: NEW HONDA BF 225 TOO HEAVY?

Well I got her back from the shop and the new BF225 and the 15hp kicker both fit hanging on the transom, and they look great. I moved the batteries, opposite the kicker and the boat is sitting square in the water. She is heavier in the *** , than before but not too bad. I just got rid of most of the junk I keep in the rear, spare oil, tools, minnow traps and the like and that seemed to help. I think with the correct propeller she will run just fine. I have tried, 14.25X15, 14.25X17, and a 14.25x21, they all are slow out of the hole, but have good top end speed. I think maybe a smaller diameter may help since I'm only turning around 5000 rpm at wot with the other props. This is a 22' pursuit walk around. I used to turn 5500 rpms with my old 14.25x15 on my Yammy 225 2-stroke. Any suggestions?
 

radsrh

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
250
Re: NEW HONDA BF 225 TOO HEAVY?

What is the difference in WOT with the props, going from a 15-21 should give you a difference of around 1500 RPM (approx change of 250 RPM per inch of pitch) If you stay at 5000 RPM with all of the props it sounds like something might not be right with the set up, throttle setting ect? let us know how it turns out, and by the way I am very jealous!!!!
 

Skinnywater

Commander
Joined
Mar 7, 2002
Messages
2,065
Re: NEW HONDA BF 225 TOO HEAVY?

Yeah, get it all proped right and give us a report.<br /><br />We've been hearing a lot of "to heavy to buy" and no "I own it and love it."
 

MIKENVAHBEACH

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Apr 20, 2003
Messages
84
Re: NEW HONDA BF 225 TOO HEAVY?

Here's the update: The motors are great, I do notice the boat sitting slightly lower in the water but not to the extent that it has me worried, maybe 1" lower at the transom. Although, I think that’s due to the additional weight from the 15hp kicker. If I was just swapping my old 225 Yammy for the bf225 Honda, I really don't think you would notice any change, but that's my boat. As for the prop situation, I tried a 15X15 (my old prop), a 14 1/4"x 17, a 19 and a 21 pitch. After trying them all my old 15x15 worked the best with 5900rpm's at w.o.t. at 37 knots. My old Yammy would turn 5400 at 30 knots, so it a really big improvement. <br /><br />I love the motors, the kicker will push at 6-7 knots in flat calm water, that’s much faster than I imagined. The big motor runs extremely quiet; you can’t even hear it when it’s idling. I keep thinking I’ve shut the engine off when it’s only in neutral. It seems to get good gas mileage, but I have not really run it long enough to know for sure. The sound of a four stroke at high revs takes some getting used to, but the quick throttle response is worth it. I would recommend these motors to anyone, of course only time will tell, my Yammy was 14 years old and ran strong until she gave out. If anything changes I’ll let you know.
 

Skinnywater

Commander
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Mar 7, 2002
Messages
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Re: NEW HONDA BF 225 TOO HEAVY?

Thanks for the update. Keep us posted on the ownership experience.
 

cggcpa1

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Nov 19, 2003
Messages
75
Re: NEW HONDA BF 225 TOO HEAVY?

Great thread.. just the question I wanted to know. I am about to repower my 20' Grady Overnighter with the bf225 Honda. My ol 98 Yamaha 200 finally died. From what I hear its an excellent motor. I am thinking about mounting it on a mini bracket just to get the motor off the transom. Any you guys installed a bracket like this? They have them in 6, 9, and 12 inch setbacks. I am not sure which one I want yet. Any suggestions or place I can find info on closing in the motor well?
 

honda cat

Cadet
Joined
Nov 26, 2003
Messages
17
Re: NEW HONDA BF 225 TOO HEAVY?

why put it on the bracket? moving the weight back farther is not a good thing . the rule of thumb for proping honda motors that helps me choose props for these motors usally rite the first time is two pitch sizes lower than the same hp 2 stroke would normaly use. Honda uses biger beefyer gears in the lower unit to take advantage of the torque of these motors and this changes gear ratios in a way that they will require lower pitch props
 

walleyehed

Admiral
Joined
Jun 29, 2003
Messages
6,767
Re: NEW HONDA BF 225 TOO HEAVY?

cggcpa1, moving the engine aft will change the point of balance, (CG), and as in my case improved performance greatly. With the eng. farther back, it (the prop) is running in less turbid water, and in most cases, the engine can be lifted slightly. With less lowerunit in the water you have less drag, more speed.<br /> On my setback (6") I was able to lift the engine 3 holes and gained not only the rise of RPM, which speed follows, I also noticed a much better handling boat with much less up-trim required to get peak performance. I gained an honest 5 MPH with this, and about 600RPM, which allowed me to go up one more step in pitch, and for me, this was a great increase in cruise economy. <br /><br />MIKENVAHBEACH, don't forget to take away the extra 300lbs. from your useful load, as if the boat were to be swamped, it may not float.... ;)
 

gss036

Commander
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Jan 18, 2003
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2,914
Re: NEW HONDA BF 225 TOO HEAVY?

"WOW! CCGCPAL, That is a lot of weight on the back of a 20 foot boat. I have a friend who put a Honda 130 on his 19 foot Bayliner Walk a Round. It sits way too low in the water but he likes it and we don't have the big swells like the east coast waters, just choppy water and the smart guys watch the wind and don't try to fight the 3-5 chop to fish. <br />After following this thread, my big question is, Mike why did you go with a 2 stroke kicker? I run a Honda 15 HP kicker and love it. I got rid of my Johnson Sailmaster 2 stoke for the Honda.
 

gss036

Commander
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Jan 18, 2003
Messages
2,914
Re: NEW HONDA BF 225 TOO HEAVY?

Just to add a late thought. Some of the guys over on the SeaCraft board talk about adding a floatation type bracket on the back of their boats to help out. That might be an option if you go with all that weight. The 225 Honda is definately a good engine. I have been considering something like that to repower my when my 1989 Merc 200 dies, but I a running a 23 SeaCraft WA designed for "up to"(rated for) 300 HP.
 

cggcpa1

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Nov 19, 2003
Messages
75
Re: NEW HONDA BF 225 TOO HEAVY?

I am sure my Grady is plenty able to handle the BF225 Honda, they put them on back of the new Grady's that are the same model as mine. That tells me it should be ok. It is rated for 230 hp. The actual length is 20'8 so almost 21 ft, and its built like a rock.
 

kenneths

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
Messages
154
Re: NEW HONDA BF 225 TOO HEAVY?

The 225HP on a 230HP rated boat isn't a problem...The concern would be the 600lbs on the transom, and the total max weight allowable, persons, motor and gear.
 

MIKENVAHBEACH

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Apr 20, 2003
Messages
84
Re: NEW HONDA BF 225 TOO HEAVY?

Here is some additional info, as Rock fishing gets into prime time, and I have put serious time on my two new Hondas. I almost always use both motors an equal amount of time on my fishing trips. The kicker is ideal for trolling, it will allow me to troll as slow as I want. Trolling this slow gives me an advantage over trolling with larger motors, since many of the bigger boats just can't slow down enough. Lazy square tailed rockfish are slow are typically not ging after something moving at 5-6knots. If I use the 225hp to get me around, and the 15hp to troll, my fuel consumption is nearly half what it would be without using the kicker. This set up is awesome, I have both engines on my transom, so it’s a breeze to flip the kicker up/down when I need it. <br /><br />The 15hp locks in the up position and so far is not a problem when in heavier seas, I thought it might fall, but has not. I have the kicker mounted on the extreme starboard side of my transom, so access to the tilt lock lever is a minor problem; you just have to reach over the kicker motor. I would mount it on the port side if possible; on my boat this is where the swim step is located so I chose the starboard side. I also have both motors with separate fuel lines and fuel filters. The kicker is not as easy to start on the really cold nights, but it is still only about three pulls. The kicker is locked in position and I steer with the big motor, this works well, except when its very windy or very crowded and maneuverability is a must. Still may convert Ez-steer system, I’ll let you know if I do<br /><br />The 225hp is also holding up well. I had one minor problem with the motor, I had water in my fuel, but the warning buzzer sounded and I emptied my filters (these were easy to get to); I have had no problems since. The engine cover snaps down and is a tight fit; I wish it were a little easier to line up when rocking around on the water, this can be a pain. This motor starts every time and does not seem to mind the cold weather like my old Yammy or the kicker does. The trim/tilt mechanism is louder than my old Yammy and makes some terrible noises but works fine I guess its just not as smooth as the Yammy system. <br /><br />In reply to those considering these motors I say go for it, since I got both motors for the same price as a 2004 Yamaha 225 four stroke. The most important thing to not is these are much heavier than equal 2 stroke and you will have to rebalance the boat. In my case I eliminated much of the typical junk on board, rearranged my batteries, and added a fresh water tank to the bow to add more weight up front. Just remember that as Walleyehed stated, “The 225HP on a 230HP rated boat isn't a problem...The concern would be the 600lbs on the transom, and the total max weight allowable, persons, motor and gear.” I now have extra weight; so I limit my crew to four guys, hate fishing with more than that anyway. This is critical since I could really notice the weight before I made the modifications. Hope this helps.
 

walleyehed

Admiral
Joined
Jun 29, 2003
Messages
6,767
Re: NEW HONDA BF 225 TOO HEAVY?

Good to hear all is running good for ya!<br />Have fun, and good luck! :)
 
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