New Force Owner, No Start Issue

[ADS122]

So I bought a boat . . .

1995 Force 120 had a bad stator
* replaced stator and trigger
* Timed to 30 BTDC at WOT while cranking
* 120 psi on all cylinders
* Good spark from all 4 coils
* good fuel flow
* rebuilt/cleaned carbs and replaced float valves

NO START - so frustrating. While timing without spark plugs the motor turns over at speed, but under pressure, no speed. I have good cranking amps from battery. I have not checked grounds or tore into starter yet. When the starter is cool it will crank a t speed, but still all I get is a backfire and smoke. No Start?

Suggestions?

 

[racerone]

Check flywheel key.

 

[The Force power]

Welcome,

Check the condition of the battery-cables & the connectors (especially the ground, in fact check/clean all your grounds!)
Open the Starter, check the condition of the armature/brushes
A slow turning Starter does not produce enough speed for the flywheel to go around the stator & to produce the Electricity needed to produce spark

Keep us posted

 

[jerryjerry05]

Backfire/smoke: Could be the system is flooded or there's an air leak somewhere?
Changed floats?? what floats did you change to? Most aftermarket floats won't work and cause flooding.
Load test the battery.
Rebuild the starter, the brush kits are cheap, they sell them here.

 

[ADS122]

I burned out my starter, got a new one. Put it on last night and it definitely is turning faster. I can get the motor to sputter at WOT while cranking, but won't take off. I'm going to replace the squeeze bulb next, it won't stay firm.

 

[racerone]

The squeeze bulb does NOT STAY FIRM once motor has started.----Completely normal.

 

[lprizman]

May the force be with you

 

[racerone]

Back firing is an indication of timing issues.----Checked the flywheel key ?

 

[ADS122]

Back firing is an indication of timing issues.----Checked the flywheel key ?

Key is good, I have it set at about 31 degrees BTDC

 

[jerryjerry05]

The backfire could be the gaskets on the port covers have gone bad and
the motors sucking air.
Do the starter fluid test: start motor, spray SF around the intake side of the motor. Any change in the way it runs means it's sucking air.
ONE!!! backfire can blow the port cover gasket/gaskets.
The squeezie's only job is to help draw fuel from the tank, once it's firm it's jobs done. Getting soft is normal, going flat isn't normal.

 

[The Force power]

Key is good, I have it set at about 31 degrees BTDC

?? It is possible to "set" your timing at 31 degrees while the key has sheared. ( you are after all taking the readings of the flywheel)
It's to verify; run the nut off & check if both cut-outs line up (flywheel/crank-shaft) Make sure to Re-torque to 80 or so Flbs
However I would set the "static" timing at 28 degrees as this at WOT will workout to 30 degrees (any more you would over-detonation)

 

[Redbarron%%]

Check that the flywheel is in the proper position by checking to make sure that the piston is at TDC at the same time the the timing mark is at TDC (#1).

 

[racerone]

I do not believe you can find / detect a sheared key with a timing light.----Back firing when cranking are the symptoms of timing issues.----Wires mixed up , plug leads on wrong and sheared key.

 

[jerryjerry05]

These motors don't usually need the timing adjusted once it's set.
If the key's sheared it won't run very good if it runs at all.
Backfiring is usually an air leak at the port covers or the diaphragm in the pump needs replacing(allows to much fuel to the piston) or the air screws are set wrong????

 

[ADS122]

So I've rebuilt the fuel pump and confirmed the Key is not sheared. I have the timing set to 28 degrees, however, still no start. It acts like the timing is too advanced. When trying to start, the flywheel only turns a few times then pauses, then turns and pauses. The battery is new with 1000 cranking amps, and the starter is new. All the cables are good with good contact. Should I change the timing until the flywheel turns free?

 

[Redbarron%%]

If the engine does not spin ~300 RPM the magnetos will not reach the coming in speed and no fire.
If it spins over faster with the ignition off (dead man switch pulled) then for some reason the timing might be advanced too much.
What is the idle timing? it should be around 9*. 28* cranking WOT.

 

[ADS122]

If the engine does not spin ~300 RPM the magnetos will not reach the coming in speed and no fire.
If it spins over faster with the ignition off (dead man switch pulled) then for some reason the timing might be advanced too much.
What is the idle timing? it should be around 9*. 28* cranking WOT.

I have it set .28 WOT while cranking. I've not checked the idle timing. I'm assuming it's the same procedure - while cranking?

 

[The Force power]

I have it set .28 WOT while cranking. I've not checked the idle timing. I'm assuming it's the same procedure - while cranking?

You can "check" BUT You don't "set" the Idle timing you set the RPMS with carbs.
Adjust idle speed to 700-750 RPM in the water in forward gear. Do this with the screw on the bottom of the timing tower. Loosen the locknut and adjust. Screwing in increases idle speed. Do this in small increments and let the engine rev and adjust itself before the next adjustment. A little goes a long way here. When correct, tighten the nut. Note that the scribed line on the roller will now be (usually) below the black roller a bit.

 

[Redbarron%%]

Pretty much the rpm and power is determined by the timing advance.
The carbs open up very little initially, but the timing drives things.
The timing of course starts at the idle setting and then increases to WOT.
Will the engine start if primed with a little fuel in the carbs or with a shot of starting fluid?
Do you have spark when turning over starting?
If it will start with a little fuel squirted into the carbs then the enrichment (either choke or the enrichment valve may not be working.)
Timing (at the correct time crank and flywheel) a spark to ignite the fuel and air.
With the key not sheared and the stator visibly in good shape and a meter to test the voltages and a verified spark you add fuel and it should start.
Have you checked that the TDC on #1 occurs when the flywheel is at ) degrees of timing?
If the engine will fire when starting fluid is sprayed in the carbs the small passages in the carb may be clogged and blowing them out with compressed air might clear them.