Need some advice....can't find model number and need wiring assistance

[Gas Giant]

Ok, to start, I bought a great running Force 50hp outboard. Seller said it was an '87, and it has a few US Marine stickers on it. I'm hoping to swap out my dead Suzuki with this engine this weekend and finally, for the first time, be able to use my boat for something other than to mow around.

First off, I can't find the model number. Through searches, I found that the model number was on the swivel bracket, but whatever was on there has been painted over at least once and no numbers or ID are visible anymore. In my Clymer's manual it shows two wiring diagrams for 1987 Force engines, 1987B and 1987C. Do any experts out there know a way to tell which one I have; I'm just not experienced enough yet to figure it out. (Assuming the seller was correct about it being an '87)

Ok, on to issue number two, which will probably have to be dealt with after issue number one is resolved. This one should be fairly simple for some of you. In the wiring harness from the engine, I have the following wires: Red, Black, Yellow, Green, Blue, Purple-ish and White.

The manual also shows the following terminals for the ignition switch: C. B. M, I, another M, and S. The one from my boat is basically the same, except instead of an I terminal, I have an A terminal. (The A terminal is where the Ignition wire was wired to with the old engine, I assume that the "I" terminal in the manual is basically the same thing.....or not?)

So, based on what I have determined so far, the wires should go like this:

Red - B terminal
Yellow - S terminal
Green - C terminal
Blue -
Violet -
White -
Black - One of the two "M" terminals? It previously went to the kill switch on my boat.

So, if anyone could fill in the blanks, or correct anything I assumed incorrectly, I would really appreciate it.

And if you're in the Cocoa/Port St. John area, stop by for a beer.

 

[tater76]

Re: Need some advice....can't find model number and need wiring assistance

Your ID tag... lift off the cowel, front of the pan, (carb facing you) look down, it should be there. Or might be further back on the pan. Let us know what you find

 

[Gas Giant]

Re: Need some advice....can't find model number and need wiring assistance

I couldn't find the ID tag....here is a pic of the area I believe you mentioned......no tag there....perhaps it was removed at some point?

Here are some pics of the engine, if someone can tell me more about what year it is or if it has a CD ignition or a battery breaker point ignition...

Anyway, thanks for the reply so far! If you need any more info from me, don't hesitate to ask!

 

[ward107]

Re: Need some advice....can't find model number and need wiring assistance

View attachment 90724View attachment 90724Gas giant,

In my clymer repair book is shows you have at least an 88' - 91' because of where your terminals are located, 87' and under the terminal closest to the coil packs is on top instead of beside. I hope this helps any. It has CD Ignition.

 

[tater76]

Re: Need some advice....can't find model number and need wiring assistance

ward107 is right, but without a model #/serial# ? for sure? My Clymer shows the same Looking at the back of the pan in the pic, there is a sticker that was painted over? just an idea, otherwise get the casting/serial # off the case itself (will be stamped in it) I have a similar motor in my garage, I will look at its stamping to compare if you find no other #'s

 

[Gas Giant]

Re: Need some advice....can't find model number and need wiring assistance

Good catch guys. It likely is an 88-91.

With regards to the wiring diagram, is the overheat buzzer and 4-position terminal block something that would normally be located on the boat itself? If this is the case, I don't have either, which would explain the absence of a red/blue wire in the harness exiting my engine.

Basically, I just want to make sure I don't wire this thing up wrong and fry something expensive when I turn the key. When the person who sold it to me started it, he jump started it since it wasn't wired up to the boat it was on. Page 290 has a great diagram of the ignition switch terminals and what goes where, so that should help.

 

[tater76]

Re: Need some advice....can't find model number and need wiring assistance

My harness is wired for the buzzer, but my boat did not come with it. However, it has a spot under the dash for it. Yes, the buzzer is attached to the boat in most cases, as well as a terminal bock. You can still find used/buy new them. Hope that helps?

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Need some advice....can't find model number and need wiring assistance

You have electronic ignition. "A" stands for Accessory which on old switches was "I" for ignition.

Your engine is wired red to "B", yellow to "S", green to "C", BLUE is kill circuit and attached to one "M", Purple can be used for tach. White is kill circuit and wired to the other "M". Orange is overheat signal. It connects to one side of the overheat indicator while the other side of the indicator attaches to the "A" terminal. Black ground is not wired to the switch
Kill switch is wired in parallel with White and Blue OR wired to ground White when the clip is pulled out. Notice that on the engine terminal blue is jumped to ground. To stop the engine with the key, the two "M" terminals have continuity only when the switch is off. This grounds white through blue and stops circutry in the CD box.

 

[ward107]

Re: Need some advice....can't find model number and need wiring assistance

If you have the US Marine remote control box that has the ignition on it the buzzer and terminal block was under the dash of the boat. I have the commander 2000 and it is in the control box. The 88-91 specs should be ok because there isn't much that changed in any of those years or find the model stamp to make certain. I think you can use a backup signal that is 12v if it was cheaper or more convenient, it would beep if there was an issue. Good luck

 

[Gas Giant]

Re: Need some advice....can't find model number and need wiring assistance

Wow thanks guys!

The control box I have - not sure what it is, as there isn't any identification on it either, did have a spot for an ignition switch but there isn't a switch in it now. Since it doesn't look like that overheat buzzer is available anymore (I only did a very brief google search - maybe it is?), would it be possible to instead wire up a warning light, or better yet an actual temperature gauge, on the dash?

Also, the black ground wire in my harness - since it isn't used on my switch anywhere due to the blue wire being jumped to ground - I guess I can use it as a ground point for other things, like accessories.

As far as the tach goes - my boat doesn't have one but I would like to install one. Does it have to be a marine or Force specific tach, or can I pick up a Sunpro or Stewart-Warner tach that would have otherwise gone into a Chevelle?

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Need some advice....can't find model number and need wiring assistance

Black can be connected to a bus bar and used as a common ground for accessories. ANY 12 volt buzzer will do as an overheat warning. It does not need to be Force specific. You can use a 12 volt light but mount it in a very conspicuous location so you don't ignore it if it lights up. As far as temp gauge, you will need a sender that screws into the head--usually a part of the gauge package. HOWEVER: you can not hook-up a temp gauge and overheat indicator at the same time unless you run a separate wire for one of them.

Tach is specific 20 pole for Force and some Mercury engines. They are becoming more difficult to find. Teleflex did make one and I believe Faria did also. But you probably would need to find NOS in a marina or a used on on the auctions. Unless you know what you are doing, modifying an auto tach will not work. If you do know what to do, a tach that takes signal inductively off the high tension spark voltage will do. Coils operate with about 250-260 volts primary so probably would not be suitable.

 

[Gas Giant]

Re: Need some advice....can't find model number and need wiring assistance

Frank,

Thank you for all the great information. My engine appears to have the temperature sender with an orange wire, but the orange wire isn't attached to anything at the moment and the lug on the end has been covered with electrical tape. Makes me wonder why that was done, but I'll worry about that later.

I've found a few 20-pole tachs on Ebay, I'll pick one up after I get the engine mounted on the boat.

Anyway, I'll post what happens once I get the engine mounted and wired. I saw it run last week before I bought it, so there isn't any reason it shouldn't fire up again!

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Need some advice....can't find model number and need wiring assistance

With that engine, ignition is self energising. As long as cranking speed is 400 or so RPM. SO: with no wires attached if you put fuel in it and jump the solenoid to crank it, it will fire and run, if it cranks fast enough--until it either runs out of gas or you short white to blue or ground on the engine terminal strip.

 

[Gas Giant]

Re: Need some advice....can't find model number and need wiring assistance

Come to think of it, that is exactly how the seller started it!

Should have the engine mounted next weekend; I doubt seriously that the bolt holes from the Suzuki engine are going to match the swivel bracket for the Force, so I'll have to fill the old holes in and drill new ones. Should be fun.

Nonetheless, I'll still post my resuts as a courtesy once I get it mounted. Thanks again to everyone who replied, you all were a huge help.

 

[Gas Giant]

Re: Need some advice....can't find model number and need wiring assistance

Ok, here's an update:

Got her mounted, and the wiring installed, and the control cables in.

Fired her up today. She started without any trouble, and since I couldn't find my hose muffs I stuck the lower unit in a trash can full of water. (Classy, huh?) She ran fine submerged, unlike that unrepentant Suzuki I had.

It didn't seem to idle as smooth as it did at the seller's house, but it wasn't bad. Also, I think I need to adjust the control cables - I couldn't tell but I think it was in forward. But the manual has that procedure in it; I can take care of that myself and if I run into issues, I'll just start a thread for the experts here!

Despite that, I consider today a victory! Thanks to everyone here!