Need help getting started - No oil seized two pistons on Evinrude 175 V6 two-stroke

Faztbullet

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Re: Need help getting started - No oil seized two pistons on Evinrude 175 V6 two-stro

Check the carbs on #1 and #3 as high sppeds or inlets needles plugged or bad.
 

daselbee

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Re: Need help getting started - No oil seized two pistons on Evinrude 175 V6 two-stro

You MUST get the proper crankcase bolt from an Evinrude dealer.
Part number is 366166 for the upper ones (6) at about $8.00 each.
The lower ones are 335611 and are about 5 bucks each.

I absolutely would not go to Fastenal or Lowes or Home Depot...etc....get the proper bolt from Evinrude.

If you haven't read yet, search here and read up on rebuilds. One thing that will stick out is this: Find out what caused the failure, or it will happen to your new rebuild job.

Now, that raises a question to me. Why the heck did #1 and #3 lean out? You will have to really dig deep to figure that one out.
 

blugrasmaniac

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Re: Need help getting started - No oil seized two pistons on Evinrude 175 V6 two-stro

As requested, here's some pictures that may help - I'd be happy to take any more if specific shots would help.

Here's the crankshaft where the rods 1 & 3 connect:
20140110_191248_resized.jpg

It's easy to tell which ones took the hit
20140110_195724_resized.jpg

Piston #3
20140110_195743_resized.jpg

Piston #1
20140110_195835_resized.jpg

A good one
20140110_195853_resized.jpg
 

daselbee

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Re: Need help getting started - No oil seized two pistons on Evinrude 175 V6 two-stro

Hey Fazt.....I don't know this block.
Is there a spot on the flange that is common to both #1 and #3 that if the gelseal was leaking....could that cause a failure on both cylinders?
I saw your carb post, and obviously the place to start, but wow...2 different carbs....

Hey OP....did you ever use ether to try to get it started? Ever?
 

blugrasmaniac

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Re: Need help getting started - No oil seized two pistons on Evinrude 175 V6 two-stro

A couple more good ones:
20140110_200020_resized.jpg

Rod caps from piston #3 (the worst one)
20140110_200430_resized.jpg


This is where the steering arm connects. Severely rusted. Is this a problem that should be address - or "normal"?

20140110_200156_resized.jpg
 

blugrasmaniac

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Re: Need help getting started - No oil seized two pistons on Evinrude 175 V6 two-stro

Point taken about the carbs and finding the initial problem. And I'll put some effort into finding the problem. However, I will say that the problem, as far as I can tell was that the (very large) gas tank was almost on empty, and I put $30 of raw fuel into it.

This boat is new to me, so I don't know about it's history. I did take it on a water test, and it idles and accelerated better than anything I've ever owned. Boat idled lowly and smoothly, and would jump out of the water on full throttle punch. No hesitation whatsoever.

I haven't verified 100% that the VRO was disconnected, but that's what I suspect.
 
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blugrasmaniac

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Re: Need help getting started - No oil seized two pistons on Evinrude 175 V6 two-stro

Hey Fazt.....I don't know this block.
Is there a spot on the flange that is common to both #1 and #3 that if the gelseal was leaking....could that cause a failure on both cylinders?
I saw your carb post, and obviously the place to start, but wow...2 different carbs....

Hey OP....did you ever use ether to try to get it started? Ever?

I just wrote a post that you'll probably see, but this boat is new to me - so I don't know whether it was started with ether. What's the risk/effects if it was?
 

daselbee

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Re: Need help getting started - No oil seized two pistons on Evinrude 175 V6 two-stro

I see a ton of aluminum "dust" under the #3 piston coating the rod. Common to see.
I really think I would replace both rods #1 and #3.
fix the motor mounts while you have it down.

You do know about parts lookup? Evinrude
 

blugrasmaniac

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Re: Need help getting started - No oil seized two pistons on Evinrude 175 V6 two-stro

You MUST get the proper crankcase bolt from an Evinrude dealer.
Part number is 366166 for the upper ones (6) at about $8.00 each.
The lower ones are 335611 and are about 5 bucks each.

I absolutely would not go to Fastenal or Lowes or Home Depot...etc....get the proper bolt from Evinrude.

Thank you - I didn't know about parts lookup for Evinrude. Great to know about! Thanks
 
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daselbee

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Re: Need help getting started - No oil seized two pistons on Evinrude 175 V6 two-stro

If someone has used ether starting fluid on those plastic carb bodies, it can "craze the plastic" in the throats, and it effectively disrupts the smooth airflow and venturi effect that the carb uses to suck gas up from the bowls. The cyl runs lean.
I blew my first engine (200 looper) by using ether.
Heck, I just wanted to see if it would fire up for a second or so. It didn't, and the wet ether stayed on the carb throat. It crazed.
So, two years later, after a 12 hour run, I had what you have on your #1 piston. The whole block was full of aluminum.
Rub you finger over it, and you ended up looking like the tin man.

But, no, if you ran it with no oil, then no, that is probably not the cause.

And, many will tell you, the VRO cannot cause this failure. If the VRO quits oiling, ALL cyls will be affected, not just two.
Which brings up the question....why ONLY TWO failed when you had no oil in the gas?

Something is not adding up. You say you had no oil in the gas, but the internal engine surfaces are all oily....
Go back and re-think what has happened.

Take a sample of the gas....it should be colored blue if it has oil in it, amber if not.
 

blugrasmaniac

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Re: Need help getting started - No oil seized two pistons on Evinrude 175 V6 two-stro

Interesting about the ether - did not know that.

I'll check the gas sample and let you know. It does seem strange that two cylinders were affected that much differently than the others. I definitely did not add oil with my $30 gas, and, if the previous owner did always "premix" that would have weakened the fuel mixture, but would have some oil content (maybe down to 200:1, given the ratio of gas I added).

Where is the VRO oil tank usually located? I have yet to see any oil reservoir on this boat or engine. I saw a warning label about priming the oil pump, in a rear locker, but there was no tank there that I saw.
 
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daselbee

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Re: Need help getting started - No oil seized two pistons on Evinrude 175 V6 two-stro

It is a large rectangular cube, maybe 15 x 10 x 8, translucent white plastic, with one oil hose coming from it, and some wiring.
It is mounted to the boat deck with a bracket system.

Look at the VRO pump itself. Examine the hoses going into the pump from the bottom side of the pump body. There will be three hoses going in the bottom, the oil hose, the fuel hose, and the pulse hose that drives the pump. If you see a hose that has been cut and capped off, it is usually done with a bolt in the cut end and a tie wrap (not good), that would be the oil hose, and then the VRO has been disabled.
 

Faztbullet

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Re: Need help getting started - No oil seized two pistons on Evinrude 175 V6 two-stro

s there a spot on the flange that is common to both #1 and #3 that if the gelseal was leaking....could that cause a failure on both cylinders?
No spots on block flange or heads as o-ring heads.I would look at carbs first then the pack/eye as these can double fire cylinders on the early packs. There was a update on the manifold gaskets on switching from the black rubber to the tan viton as the rubber ones shrink/cracked due to ethanol poisoning
 
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gm280

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Re: Need help getting started - No oil seized two pistons on Evinrude 175 V6 two-stro

You MUST get the proper crankcase bolt from an Evinrude dealer.
Part number is 366166 for the upper ones (6) at about $8.00 each.
The lower ones are 335611 and are about 5 bucks each.

I absolutely would not go to Fastenal or Lowes or Home Depot...etc....get the proper bolt from Evinrude.

If you haven't read yet, search here and read up on rebuilds. One thing that will stick out is this: Find out what caused the failure, or it will happen to your new rebuild job.

Now, that raises a question to me. Why the heck did #1 and #3 lean out? You will have to really dig deep to figure that one out.

I read your comment about purchasing nothing but Evinrude bolts for the replacements for the broken bolts. Not knowing myself, are those bolts torque to stretch types? Because if not I don't see anything wrong with any quality grade eight replacements.

And blugrasmanic, I must have misunderstood you about being tech savvy with auto engines. If you have never rebuilt any engine, you picked a great project to learn on now. Do follow all the info from these comments AND the original factory shop manual. That manual will become your best friend until this rebuild is completed. Your learning experience will increase ten fold in very short time. And once finished, your self satisfaction will sky-rocket too. I still believe you will refurbish this OB and enjoy the out come... I personally would replace the water pump impellor as well since you will end up with basically a new engine again. No reason to short change the cooling system after all this effort.
 

blugrasmaniac

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Re: Need help getting started - No oil seized two pistons on Evinrude 175 V6 two-stro

I went back and looked at the vro pump, and the oil injection line has been cut and plugged just outside the engine cowling. So it was obviously depending on premixed fuel
 

daselbee

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Re: Need help getting started - No oil seized two pistons on Evinrude 175 V6 two-stro

No they are not stretch/torque bolts. Only the rod bolts are stretch, I think.
My point is not ALL broken bolts, but certainly the crankcase bolts.
I guess it is just a personal thing with me.

Another thing about Evinrude bolts is very convenient. They very often have flanged heads, meaning they will not go to the bottom of a socket when re-installing. I find this a good feature. Very handy especially on the 24 carb mounting bolts, and also on the throttle body bolts where the six nuts are flanged also.

Also, Evinrude OEM bolts are often threaded only partway up the shank. Most bolts from hdwe stores are threaded all the way up, or if they have a partly unthreaded plain shank, they may not have the same length of threads...head bolts are an example of that.

Stuff like that. I personally would not use any obtainable grade 8 as a substitute. I get the right bolt.

Pump really should have the oil line cut where it enters the pump, and capped off there. It eliminates a foot of hose that can eventually rot and develop air leaks.
 

blugrasmaniac

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Re: Need help getting started - No oil seized two pistons on Evinrude 175 V6 two-stro

These came out of the hole in the block under one of the main bearings. At least the washer with legs did. The flat solid disc, I'm not 100% sure about, since I found it when taking the crankshaft apart.

What are they? Can I just reinstall them - or do I need to order a new part?

20140112_201646.jpg

Here's where it came from:

20140112_201020.jpg
 

blugrasmaniac

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Re: Need help getting started - No oil seized two pistons on Evinrude 175 V6 two-stro

Thought I'd post and thank everyone for the all help and support!! I got (almost) everything back together, and took it for a successful maiden voyage this afternoon!

It cranked up pretty easily and runs and accelerates well, but has a little bit of a miss that's noticeable below 2000 rpm's and most noticeable at idle. It's almost like a sneeze or sudden rush of air across the intake every few seconds when at idle.

I'm not sure if it's a vacuum leak or not, but there's a few spark plugs that I didn't replace. I'll do that first thing and try it again before I start into the heavy troubleshooting.


On a side note, after I drove it back to the boat landing, I took the spark plugs out for a quick check, and I did notice that the two middle ones (#3, #4) were dry, while the others were slightly wet. Not entirely sure if that's a bad thing or not. I'm going to run it again tomorrow, and I'll let it idle for a bit and check them again. They shouldn't really be totally dry, though - right? Or is that normal for them to dry out when running at higher rpms?
 

boobie

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Re: Need help getting started - No oil seized two pistons on Evinrude 175 V6 two-stro

Looks like you need some new motor mounts. What does the steering arm look like ?? Post a pic.
 

blugrasmaniac

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Re: Need help getting started - No oil seized two pistons on Evinrude 175 V6 two-stro

Yeah the old motor mounts were pretty bad. I ended up replacing them already.
 
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