Need Advice and Opinions again***Final Outcome***

[ehenry]

I've been a member here for a while now and have come to value the thoughts and opinions of the folks on this board. My sisters and I, have a tough situation ahead of us.<br /><br />Both our parents are still living and in good health. Still active, mamma gets out, weather permitting, and walks two miles everyday, tends her flowers and volanteers for various things. Daddy still walks 18 to 36 holes of golf on the week days with whats left of his golfing buddies and plays Gin Rummy every Monday with the same guys when the Country Club is closed. Both are still fairly mentally alert and sharp at 86 and 82 years of age.<br /><br />Yesterday, while driving home from my sister's house in Louisiana, Pop had an accident in his brand spankin new Cadillac that he bought just this past Thursday. Instead of paying attention to what he was doing he was just following the traffic in front of him. Doing so, it caused him to exit The Natchez Trace before he should have. Instead of continuing on and finding a suitable turn around he tried to veer back onto the parkway hitting a concrete curb. This blew out both front tires, busted both front cast aluminum wheels on the car. It also may have gotten the oil pan on the car too. Not sure about the oil pan, just know there was a fluid of some sort leaking from the car.<br /><br />This isn't the first accident of this sort thats happened. AND, according to Mamma, there have been numerous close call incidents that we have no idea about.<br /><br />My question to all you on this board is....At what point in a elderly parents life do you approach them and appeal to their common sense that they just can't go and do like they are accustomed too. Daddy is going to be a tough one on this. He was a memeber of the Mississippi Senate for 8 or 12 years, I dont really remember, a president and chairman of a state financial institution and retired at the top of his career, A B-24 pilot in WWII and just pain stubborn. <br /><br />Mamma has accepted the fact that she doesn't need to be driving and going like she use to and gets one of my sisters to take to her out of town when she needs to go. Pop is going to be a different story.<br /><br />I know there's some of yall out there that have had to cross this bridge. I would greatly appreciate any thoughts and wisdom you could pass on to me on how to approach and handle this.

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: Need Advice and Opinions again***Final Outcome***

EF, that is a hard one and has been tossed about on here a couple times.<br /><br />If it was me, I would have a good ol sit down and talk with them.<br /><br />If there are enough people around to help share the duties of driving them around, that would help also.<br /><br />Some people can keep on driving ok for a long time and some not.<br />The most important thing is to try to get him/her to realize that they are getting into dangerous territory as far as the driving part of their life.<br /><br />It's hard for them to quit, but if they still have all their mind then it might be easier than you think to talk to them about it.<br /><br />The most important part is their safety and you must impress this upon them.<br /><br />Good luck.

 

[Drowned Rat]

Re: Need Advice and Opinions again***Final Outcome***

I'm sorry to hear about your dad's misfortune ef. I think when I reach the point that you're at now, I'll probably let them keep going til they can't go no more. I'm sure they're are many who disagree, but as long as they can pass the state's driving test, let them drive. Senior drivers are the absolute LEAST of your worries on the road. Accidents involving seniors, when it's their fault, tend to be relatively minor because they drive slower. The group you need to watch out for is the 16 to 24 year olds. This group is far far more dangerous than all the other age groups combined. Just my opinion though. Good luck with however you decide to handle it.

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: Need Advice and Opinions again***Final Outcome***

" hitting a concrete curb. This blew out both front tires, busted both front cast aluminum wheels"<br /><br />as a loyal caddy man, y'all r darn lucky he was<br />drivin one EF! u could be feeling alot worse right<br />now buddy...<br /><br />the truth is always best IMHO.<br />even if he fights it, he sounds like a v.smart<br />man and will see u r right eventually.<br /><br />best of luck,<br />M.Y.

 

[KennyKenCan]

Re: Need Advice and Opinions again***Final Outcome***

That is a very tough question EF.<br /><br />My parents too, are at that stage in life, and I too, am wondering when they shouldn't be allowed to drive any longer.<br /><br />I will continue to monitor this thread in hopes that it will answer the questions I have.<br /><br />Thanks for bringing up the topic EF.

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: Need Advice and Opinions again***Final Outcome***

It might not have been his age. My mother at age 60 just did the same thing in her new car. Just not used to it.<br /><br />But I would just talk to him and tell him you are concerned about him as well as others on the road. If he doesnt see it that way, there isnt much you can do.<br /><br />Remind him of his time in government where he served the community. Now it is time to protect the community.<br /><br />Also, think about the insurance rates going up after this accident.<br /><br />On the flip side, are you going to be able to take him everywhere he wants to go?<br /><br />Ken

 

[aspeck]

Re: Need Advice and Opinions again***Final Outcome***

My mother-in-law sent my wife (well, before she was my wife) when she was 13 to her grandma to tell her she shouldn't drive, because the grandkids wanted her around for a number of years.<br /><br />As for my grandfather, we were talking about it one day in the presents of a friend who was a State Trooper. He volunteered to go and have a chat with Pappy. It really slowed Pappy down a lot.<br /><br />These are two ideas that have have been used, and have worked. It is always difficult dealing with a parent/grandparent that doesn't WANT to realize their limitations. I understand that, there are things I cannot do like I did, but it is hard to accept that in my 40's, I am getting older.<br /><br />Whatever you do, let daddy know that you love him, and because he can't do what he used to do, he is in no way less loved, appreciated, or cared for. His worth and value needs to be in who he is, and his relationships with family and friends, not what he can do.<br /><br />Good luck EF, and keep us posted.

 

[jinx]

Re: Need Advice and Opinions again***Final Outcome***

If you feel it's time, at least bring it up. It might get him thinking.<br /><br />Jinx

 

[lakelivin]

Re: Need Advice and Opinions again***Final Outcome***

Ouch, gonna be tough. <br /><br />I'd try to impress on him not just the danger to themselves, but the potential of hurting others. Sometimes that might have a bigger impact on people, especially the elderly who might not truely value their own lives as much as they used to.<br /><br />Sorry DR, but I've gotta disagree with you about the potential dangers of elderly drivers. There have been a number of highly publicized cases where older drivers have caused tragic accidents. <br />The guy who drove down a crowded sidewalk. Even though he was going pretty slow (10-15 mph?) he killed multiple pedestrians. Another guy failed to see the car with a flat tire stopped in his lane on a city street. He never even hit the brakes and crushed the guy getting the spare out of the trunk (he survived but lost both legs). Others have driven the wrong way onto freeways, with tragic results. I'd collect as many of these examples as possible to show him. <br /><br />I'd also come up with reasonable alternatives for transportation for your parents to consider before I talked to him; family, taxis, etc. (losing the cost of a new cadillac, it's upkeep, insurance, etc. will pay for a whole lot of cab fares!). <br /><br />Given the way you describe your father, I'd let him know that it's up to him to decide when it's time to give up driving and let him know that you'll fully help & support him in getting around when he does.<br /><br />If he decides to keep driving and shows continued dangerous tendencies, I think you've got a real moral dilemma on your hands. What if you do nothing & he kills himself or others? I believe some states have a program where you can 'annonomously' (to the elderly driver, anyways) alert the DMV to potentially dangerous elderly drivers. Don't know what hapens from there, they may be required to pass some tests in order to retain their liscense, etc., but you might want to check into it. Any of our law enforcement officers have more knowledge about this issue?<br /><br />Good luck, you're prolly gonna need it.

 

[LadyFish]

Re: Need Advice and Opinions again***Final Outcome***

Mr. Henry I'm sorry to hear about your parent’s misfortune and understand your concern for their safety.<br /><br />My Dad is getting up there in age too and my Step Mom doesn’t drive, and he needs to be off the road. Much like your father he is independent and used to being in charge of things.<br /><br />Like most people when they reach their 70’s and 80's their vision is not up to par and certainly adequate for driving today’s highways. The peripheral vision can deteriorate for a number of reasons, as well as many seasoned citizens have cataracts and don’t realize it. In this case, their prescription won’t correct their vision enough to matter.<br /><br />During your conversation with your father, it would be wise to make sure he’s had a recent dilated eye exam and his prescription is current. This may be a great way to start the whole conversation. Let him and your Mom know how concerned for their safety you are. He will rebel at first like all of us would. Taking away someone’s independence is devastating to say the least. Hopefully he will rethink another trip as long as this one or at least your Mother will before she agrees to go with him.<br /><br />Tread lightly on the issue with him. He has to feel like he is the same man he once was and he is. But he also has to realize that he has a slight handicap now and is not only endangering his and your Mother’s lives but very possibly the lives of other innocent people.<br /><br />This is one of the most difficult things anyone has to go through. It can lead to severe depression if they lose mobility. If you are successful in getting him to scale back on his trips, maybe they can fly to see the family the next time or someone else can drive them.<br /><br />One step at a time is my advice. It never had to do with age as far as when is it time. It has to do with vision and reflexes, both of which slow down as we age.<br /><br />Baby steps. Get him to agree not to travel the major highways where trafic is bad and not to take long trips. Use this accident and his vision and reflexes as your reason for broaching the subject.<br /><br />Good luck to you EF, it is a tough situation, but if handled properly, he will end up okay about it, but most importantly, they will be safe.

 

[ehenry]

Re: Need Advice and Opinions again***Final Outcome***

As far as I know, here in Mississippi once you get your drivers license its yours. They dont retest seniors. I personally think they should. As far as his insruance rates going up because of this accident thats not going to happen. To my knowlege Daddy has never used his car insurance...even when I was THE Crash Test Dummy of the family. <br /><br />I will say this though, the OnStar system in that car was a god send. They were Johnny On The Spot in getting them some help.<br /><br />Drown Rat, I don't know about you but I'm living the dream or nightmare (however you want to look at it) on the 16 to 24 year old drivers. My son is 17. So far So Good on his record.<br /><br />Aspeck, you and I are chasing the same coon as far as age goes. I hear ya on not doing things like ya use to ! ! !

 

[JB]

Re: Need Advice and Opinions again***Final Outcome***

Very timely, EF.<br /><br />Both of my parents voluntarily stopped driving at night in their 70s and stopped driving altogether in their early 80s. We didn't have to tell them. . . they knew.<br /><br />I am in my 70th year and don't drive at night if I can avoid it. Aging vision turns headlights into dazzle. I also don't drive in city traffic if I can avoid it.<br /><br />Saturday past I got stuck doing both while towing my utility trailer. I misunderstood directions and ended up in South Ft. Worthless after dark.<br /><br />Well, you can guess the rest. I swung too wide on a left turn and whacked the guy beside me also making a left turn, but a shorter one.<br /><br />Leaving shortly to take Ol' Blue in for repairs.<br /><br />Don't know yet what I will do when I decide I shouldn't drive at all. I will cross that bridge when I come to it.<br /><br />I feel for your Dad. Losing the things one loses with age is hard. . . sometimes very hard. I hate not being able to do some of the things that used to be routine, but I at least have survived the failed attempts.<br /><br />Being physically active and mentally alert is not the same as being quick in reaction, eagle eyed and nimble.<br /><br />Tell Dad you are afraid for him. Let him decide (this part is VERY important) what he can still do safely.<br /><br />Good luck.

 

[ehenry]

Re: Need Advice and Opinions again***Final Outcome***

This is exactly the type feed back I was hoping for. I appreciate you all ! !

 

[62_Kiwi]

Re: Need Advice and Opinions again***Final Outcome***

EF - I agree with the advice that LF and JB have given you. The idea of scaling back his driving gradually rather than complete cold turkey is both an easier sell and not so difficult for him to adjust to. I know many older people who restrict their driving in this way. <br /><br />In NZ, people must have a regular eye test (every 10 years) in order to retain their drivers licences. After the age of 80, the eye test is required every 2 years.<br /><br />[self edit: Oops I got it wrong - not only elderly people require eye tests]<br /><br />I wish you well in this very difficult situation.<br /><br />BTW: I recall that he was based in and flew from Australia during WWII - making him part of the fine force that defended this corner of the world from the Japanese threat. ...better add "war hero" to his list of qualifications

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: Need Advice and Opinions again***Final Outcome***

EF, a check list if you will.<br />Some warning signs.<br /><br />Feeling less comfortable and more nervous or fearful while driving. <br /><br />Difficulty staying in the lane of travel <br />More frequent "close calls" (i.e. almost crashing). <br /><br />More frequent dents, scrapes, on the car or on fences, mailboxes, garage doors, curbs etc. <br /><br />Trouble judging gaps in traffics at intersections and on highway entrance/exit ramps. <br /><br />Other drivers honking at you more often; more instances when you are angry at other drivers. <br /><br />Friends or relatives not wanting to drive with you. <br /><br />Getting lost more often. <br /><br />Difficulty seeing the sides of the road when looking straight ahead (i.e. cars or people seem to come "out of nowhere" more frequently). <br /><br />Trouble paying attention to or violating signals, road signs and pavement markings. <br /><br />Slower response to unexpected situations; trouble moving foot from gas to brake pedal or confusing the two pedals. <br /><br />Easily distracted or hard to concentrate while driving. <br /><br />Hard to turn around to check over shoulder while backing up or changing lanes. <br /><br />Medical conditions or medications that may be increasingly affecting your ability to handle the car safely <br /><br />More traffic tickets or "warnings" by traffic or law enforcement officers in the last year or two.<br />________________________________________________<br />For Senior Drivers <br /><br />Take a refresher driving course <br />Attend an AARP "55-Alive" class teaching people 50 and over about defensive driving <br /><br />Get regular check-ups for hearing, vision and general health and get treatment for problems (and ask physicians about effect of medications on driving) <br /><br />Stay strong and healthy through activity and exercise; stay mentally alert through interaction with others, hobbies and new learning activities <br /><br />Stay away from potential distractions while driving (radio, cell phones, conversations with passengers, eating, etc.) <br />_______________________________________________<br />For Family and Caregivers of Senior Drivers <br /><br />Be aware of driving habits and discuss any concerns with the older relative <br /><br />Encourage refresher driving lessons and AARP "55-Alive" course <br /><br />If necessary, garner allies and support from primary care physician and other family <br /><br />Explore and propose alternative transportation plans (taxis, shared rides, senior transportation, etc.) <br /><br />If older adult stops driving, make sure there are plenty of visitors and opportunities for connections and interactions with others to avoid isolation of the elderly. <br /><br />REMEMBER: Good Driving Depends on Ability, Not Age

 

[LadyFish]

Re: Need Advice and Opinions again***Final Outcome***

Great list SBN. We use a similar one for our patients. All good advice here.

 

[ehenry]

Re: Need Advice and Opinions again***Final Outcome***

SBN, thats a great list. THanks<br /><br />62_Kiwi, you are correct. Pop was based in Perth and Darwin. Up until recently his entire crew was still living. In the past two year all but Pop and 3 others have passed on. When he retired he decided to make a squadron reunion. Thats when he found out all his crew was still alive and he's maintained contact with then ever since.<br /><br />Miss Ladyfish, you dont have to call me Mr Henry. I'm just an OCAB, ef will do just fine.

 

[BoatBuoy]

Re: Need Advice and Opinions again***Final Outcome***

EF,<br /> Take that list and talk to Pop. Leave the list with him. He will probably dismiss your concerns, out-of-hand. That's OK. You've planted a seed and he'll be thinking about it. Approach the subject again at a later time, maybe ask if he looked at the list. If brushed off, that's OK. He'll think about it some more. This, I found out, is a process, not an immediate decision.

 

[lakelivin]

Re: Need Advice and Opinions again***Final Outcome***

Originally posted by BoatBuoy:<br /> EF,<br /> Take that list and talk to Pop. Leave the list with him. He will probably dismiss your concerns, out-of-hand. That's OK. You've planted a seed and he'll be thinking about it. Approach the subject again at a later time, maybe ask if he looked at the list. If brushed off, that's OK. He'll think about it some more. This, I found out, is a process, not an immediate decision.

Additional sugestion: Give him the list, let him know that he'll have to make the decision as to when to give up driving and that the list might help him. Also give him copies of the articles about some of the severe accidents caused by elderly people driving with impaired skills. Don't suggest he's at that state, just tell him they're examples of the reason you're concerned that he pay atention and monitor his skills so he'll quit before he reaches that state.<br /><br />And have some plans/ ideas ready to help insure he can maintain his mobility and independence. These too could be planted as seeds if/ when he shows a crack indicating he might have started thinking about the issue.

 

[ehenry]

Re: Need Advice and Opinions again***Final Outcome***

Canton, where we live is a small town. I have complete faith in Pop and his drivng as long as he's driving here in town. Driving to church, grocery store, anywhere in town I have absolutely no problem with. Leaving town, going to Jackson or further away really worries me. I'll take your suggestion of taking the list with me and letting him have it. I know this is a proccess that will take time.