NASCAR 2015 Changes.......

[WIMUSKY]

They just keep on coming.......

NASCAR considering reducing horsepower to Cup cars next season UPDATE: NASCAR is planning on making significant engine package changes in 2015 to extend the life of Sprint Cup powerplants and reduce horsepower. And along with engine changes, there likely will be aerodynamic and tire changes for the Cup cars in 2015 as well. That's the word from NASCAR Vice President of Competition and Racing Development Robin Pemberton. Pemberton said the sanctioning body has had four meetings so far with representatives from Chevy, Ford and Toyota and race teams about how to implement those changes. No consensus has been reached yet, according to Pemberton, but discussions are ongoing in advance of making the changes for next year. Although Pemberton declined to specify how many horsepower NASCAR is looking to cut, sources familiar with the discussions said the reduction would be in the neighborhood of 75 to 100 horsepower. Currently, NASCAR Sprint Cup Series engines make about 860-900 horsepower at most tracks. Discussions are still in the early stages, Pemberton said, but given the fact that there are so few engine suppliers now, they will need plenty of lead-time to make changes for next year.

Among the options being discussed are reduction in engine displacement and changes to throttle body size. Sources familiar with the discussions say that Chevy and Toyota are pushing for a reduction to 5.0-liter engines, while the Ford camp is pushing for the use of tapered spacers, such as are used in the NASCAR Nationwide and Camping World Truck Series engines. Pemberton said any change in the engine package likely would necessitate other changes as well.

"It's not fully appreciated the fact that we've had the same engine for basically 25 or 30 years and it's at 850 or 860 horsepower, where it used to be 500," Pemberton said. "And we are at the same race tracks where we used to run 160 (miles per hour) we're now qualifying at 190 and running 213 going into the corners. There's been a lot of engineering and gains made across the board. Goodyear ... we have the same tire patch as when we started.(FoxSports)(3-23-2014)

UPDATE: NASCAR has another meeting scheduled in April with Sprint Cup engine builders to determine possible changes to the engine for next year, said Gene Stefanyshyn, NASCAR vice president of innovation and racing development. NASCAR has talked with teams since late last year about engine changes for 2015 that would reduce horsepower. "We're all working together to find the solution,'' Stefanyshyn told Motor Racing Network on Friday at Martinsville Speedway. "We have to make sure that the little guys, the smaller engine builders are OK with this and we don't hurt them financially. It's a balance, and we've probably got six different alternatives we're looking at. We're going to be needing to get to a decision here pretty soon.'' Engine builders expect NASCAR to reduce horsepower by about 100 or so for next year.(Motor Racing Network)(3-29-2014)

 

[GA_Boater]

Re: NASCAR 2015 Changes.......

They just keep on coming.......

NASCAR considering reducing horsepower to Cup cars next season UPDATE:

"It's not fully appreciated "the fact that we've had the same engine for basically 25 or 30 years and it's at 850 or 860 horsepower, where it used to be 500," Pemberton said. "And we are at the same race tracks where we used to run 160 (miles per hour) we're now qualifying at 190 and running 213 going into the corners. There's been a lot of engineering and gains made across the board. Goodyear ... we have the same tire patch as when we started.(FoxSports)(3-23-2014)

Pemberton isn't very good at math. The Chevy motor is based on the 265CI motor from 1955, 59 years ago, with new heads. While the Ford is based on the 1962 221 CI V8, 52 years ago. Ford doesn't even put an OHV V8 motor in a new car anymore and Chevy still uses OHV in all the V8s. Toyota doesn't count.

Why doesn't nascar just use production V6 OHCs if they want to cut costs. And production bodies, too. When was a Taurus 2 door or Camry last made or an Impala SS 2 door. Put the stock back into National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing.

 

[aspeck]

Re: NASCAR 2015 Changes.......

How about Briggs and Stratton 1 cylinder engines on go-cart frames? :facepalm:

 

[WIMUSKY]

Re: NASCAR 2015 Changes.......

How about Briggs and Stratton 1 cylinder engines on go-cart frames? :facepalm:

NASCAR may eventually get there.................... If they keep messin' around like they're doing, it's a good way to start losing their audience... Which is already happening.......

 

[GA_Boater]

Re: NASCAR 2015 Changes.......

How about Briggs and Stratton 1 cylinder engines on go-cart frames? :facepalm:

With mufflers and weights so the the cars...er...go-karts and driver combo weigh the same. Will going open wheel give Tony and Danica an unfair advantage? :facepalm:

 

[QC]

Re: NASCAR 2015 Changes.......

You guys are a bunch of whining ninnies

But seriously... you want NASCAR to go back to their routes, but reducing horsepower to where they were 20 years ago doesn't count? You want stock cars, but I am sure you don't want dead drivers, so you want all of the safety stuff, uh, that equals a modern car. You want closer racing, but changing a rule to get it doesn't work for you. I think you need to put yourselves in Daytona, in the ivory tower and tell us what you would do to improve the sport. Let's start with GA's suggestion. Stock V6's in stock cars. What are the new rules to police that, make it sell tickets, and keep the drivers safe? Take as long as you want. As many posts as you want. We'll call it The GAMUSKY Cup. Go for it.

 

[MTboatguy]

Re: NASCAR 2015 Changes.......

Well as the old saying goes, "Want in one hand and "S**T in the other, then see which on gets full first!" They are going to keep changing things as long as they are loosing viewers and people going to the races, as with all big business, they are going to keep throwing things against the wall until they think something sticks.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Re: NASCAR 2015 Changes.......

Personally, I'm in favor of the 5.0L engine size.

The other thing I would like to see is roller cams and a limit to the "as installed" valve spring tensions.

These changes should make those engines last a long, LONG time and they could probably get rid of the restrictor plates !

 

[GA_Boater]

Re: NASCAR 2015 Changes.......

My V6 reasoning was based on two things -
1. V6s are the bulk of engines put into production cars today.
2. nascar is into the green stuff. No, not money (well they are) but environmental green. Look at NASCAR Drivers, Standings & News : NASCAR Sprint Cup Series | NASCAR.com. See the nascar green on top.

One of the reasons nascar is talking about changing the engine rules is to reduce costs. But OK, the name of the game is go fast. The current engines are so high strung and producing prodigious amounts of power that they require a complete rebuild after every race. So lets see:

GAMUSKY Rule #1 - 5.7 liter engines, 350CI SOHC V8s. Ford and Toyota make SOHC V8s, Chevy - Move out of the 50's.

GAMUSKY Rule #2 - A single engine supplier for each make and each engine is sealed meaning every Ford engine is equal, same with Toyota and Chevy. Engines incorporate rev limiters. Nascar controls the chips, no more plates. Broken seals and the owner/team is penalized, driver points are not affected.

GAMUSKY Rule #3 - Place limits on the number of engines used per season. Right now it basically unlimited. Let's say two road course engines, three Daytona/Talladega engines, three short track, one mile or less, engines and four engines for the rest of the tracks. That's twelve engines for 36 races. Formula One is limited to eight engines for 19 races. Have to work on penalties for excessive engine usage, but I think the supplier has to be slapped, like Toyota with Kenseths' light rod, because reliability has to come from the supplier.

These are the first GA rules, I don't know if Musky buys in or not. Talk amongst yourselves. I won't be offended.

 

[WIMUSKY]

Re: NASCAR 2015 Changes.......

First, I'd like to know who pizzed in QC's porridge?

V-6s? Nah. You mention V-6 and NASCAR nation will lose it. Americans like their V-8s.

My beef isn't what is being changed, or, what should be changed. It's that NASCAR is "constantly" making changes. Whether before "each" season or during. Enough already. They don't give their changes enough time to see if it sticks to the wall or not. And really, if you really think about, all these changes isn't going to make for better racing. For the most part, the same drivers are going to come out on top. The only racing that truly levels the playing field and anyone could win(which it seems NASCAR is striving for), is, wait for it........................................plates. No, we're not going to make every race a plate race. But NASCAR wants that equality w/o the plate. Thing is, they'll never accomplish it, IMO.

They had the IROC series where all the cars were identical, look how well that went over....

BTW, I believe 4 of the 6 winners so far were powered by Hendrick......

I do like the GAMUSKY Cup...........

 

[QC]

Re: NASCAR 2015 Changes.......

First, I'd like to know who pizzed in QC's porridge?

Busch the Elder...

 

[Slip Away]

Re: NASCAR 2015 Changes.......

If you want to know how the return of a V6 engine would go, just take a look at the 2014 Formula 1 season so far. Granted the F1 engines are turbocharged, and utilize hybrid technology(w/electric motors) , but the cars now sound like junk, and fans, track owners, promotors, and drivers hate them so far. Would be similar if Nascar switched to a V6 so soon. But.... I can see the day coming when V6's will be the norm in NASCAR, Just don't do it yet. Please !!

 

[QC]

Re: NASCAR 2015 Changes.......

I am not sure how the 5.0s are going to lower costs under the current plan. Longevity? Maybe. They will push within whatever envelope they give them.

OK The GAMUSKY Cup is taking shape. Couple of comments:

GM#1) Why is OHC important to you? I like them too, but what does it do for fans?

GM#2) I like that engines are unpredictable and that they have the drama of one team member's engine failing and the others start stressing. I guess that would continue with fewer suppliers. But I don't want cookie cutter engines, just like we don't like cookie cutter cars. So I am not sure how "sealed" I want them, but what you describe is close to what we have now.

GM#3) I like this one, although you need to consider back-up cars etc. Do you expect engines to last for multiple races? Do you think that's what's up with Post #1? I thought they were trying to simply slow them down. Not sure how they gain life expectancy by going smaller although they state that as a goal. Ultimately I don't care how many engines there are as long as it doesn't mean people miss races for things out of their control.

So far the GAMUSKY Cup sounds like Sprint Cup without pushrods.

Oh, I have a pet peave rule that you can guys can adopt if you want:

Edit: My suggestions for GM#4) When 43 cars show up, there are no Provisionals, No Champ Provisionals. Nuttin'. I understand why with 47 cars etc. But why in the heck does anyone keep track of this when only 43 cars show up?

 

[GA_Boater]

Re: NASCAR 2015 Changes.......

Busch the Elder...

GAMUSKY Rule #5 - Any driver with the surname Busch must drive a car with an inline four cylinder engine with two spark plugs removed. The other two cylinders must have faulty injectors.

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: NASCAR 2015 Changes.......

I think its funny that NASCAR thinks it can force teams to cut costs by reducing engine sizes, Yeah that will work LOL, teams will just change the same operations to exploit horsepower from the smaller engines, this isn't rocket science fellas, the teams know what they need to do to get X amount of horsepower from their motors, be it through manpower whatever...

I like V-8's as much as the next guy but it certainly seems to me that V-6's are a force to be dealt with, maybe it would be a better idea to put V-6's in Nationwide, make the minor leagues what they should be and for goodness sakes get NASCAR drivers out of Nationwide.

Lets take this another step, why not use bigger motors in the trucks? Why is it that we allow NASCAR to use the bigger motors when they do not use them on the road? Are we trying to adapt NASCAR to what is available on the road or no? Is NASCAR giving up its heritage of redneck engineering and putting a bigger motor from another car or truck into a smaller chassis to make a faster car for running moonshine?

What exactly is the future we are trying to accomplish here?

You want my opinion? LEAVE IT AFREAKINGLONE!!!

 

[GA_Boater]

Re: NASCAR 2015 Changes.......

I am not sure how the 5.0s are going to lower costs under the current plan. Longevity? Maybe. They will push within whatever envelope they give them.

OK The GAMUSKY Cup is taking shape. Couple of comments:

GM#1) Why is OHC important to you? I like them too, but what does it do for fans?
Because that's what we fans drive, except for Chevy owners. Part of the win on Sunday, sell on Monday mantra.

GM#2) I like that engines are unpredictable and that they have the drama of one team members engine failing and the others start stressing. I guess that would continue with fewer suppliers. But I don't want cookie cutter engines, just like we don't like cookie cutter cars. So I am not sure how "sealed" I want them, but what you describe is close to what we have now.
Yes, we do have cookie cutter engines now under the nascar rulebook, just like the COT was the same body with different front and rear ID wraps and universal templates. And most likely cookie cutter engines will continue. More massaging needed on this.

GM#3) I like this one, although you need to consider back-up cars etc. Do you expect engines to last for multiple races? Do you think that's what's up with Post #1? I thought they were trying to simply slow them down. Not sure how they gain life expectancy by going smaller although they state that as a goal. Ultimately I don't care how many engines there are as long as it doesn't mean people miss races for things out of their control.
Team show up at a track with a primary and back up car - That's only two engines. Each team has at least a third category (road course/short track/ etc.) engine if a change is needed. Yes, engines should last for more than one race. Some of the goals are reduced cost and supporting Green racing. Cost is the reason for SOHC, along with cookie cutter engines and limits on the number of engines. There would need to be an engine de-certification method which allows a team to replace dog motors with no penalty. Smaller engines use less E10 Green Sunoco Racing Fuel.

So far the GAMUSKY Cup sounds like Sprint Cup without pushrods.

Oh, I have a pet peave rule that you can guys can adopt if you want:

Edit: My suggestions for GM#4) When 43 cars show up, there are no Provisionals, No Champ Provisionals. Nuttin'. I understand why with 47 cars etc. But why in the heck does anyone keep track of this when only 43 cars show up?
Nascar is too selective with remembering history. All the provisionals are historic in nature, but nascar forgets its roots. Why only two road courses and none in the Chase? I vote for GM#4 with no reservation.

I'm not defending, just trying to clarify. Heck, it's April 1st, we can do anything today.

 

[WIMUSKY]

Re: NASCAR 2015 Changes.......

You want my opinion? LEAVE IT AFREAKINGLONE!!!

I could have saved a lot keystrokes by saying the same thing..........

 

[QC]

Re: NASCAR 2015 Changes.......

Leave what alone? This particular rules package? I think my point for resurrecting this thread was that there are always needs to change things. Safety would be the first example and easiest to understand. Technology the 2nd. When they go from 500 to 900 HP in 25 years, and then cars start getting airborne, they had to change stuff, right? That one was both a safety and a technology issue and they had to do something or fans were going to literally die. I know that is an extreme example, but these issues don't stop.

It reminds me of a response I have to some other big topics: "what date do you want to set the time machine for?"

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: NASCAR 2015 Changes.......

I hear ya QC and I agree Safety is one area where I have never had a big issue with, yeah maybe at first I did but in the end I knew it was for safety so no biggie, the one that drove me nuts was the pit lane speed limit, HATE IT, but its a no brainer, even for my hard head.

 

[GA_Boater]

Re: NASCAR 2015 Changes.......

Leave what alone? This particular rules package? I think my point for resurrecting this thread was that there are always needs to change things. Safety would be the first example and easiest to understand. Technology the 2nd. When they go from 500 to 900 HP in 25 years, and then cars start getting airborne, they had to change stuff, right? That one was both a safety and a technology issue and they had to do something or fans were going to literally die. I know that is an extreme example, but these issues don't stop.

It reminds me of a response I have to some other big topics: "what date do you want to set the time machine for?"

February, 18, 2001, about 1:00 PM.