My boat has a knock, I don't know how it happened.

FreeBeeTony

Captain
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May 15, 2002
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3,991
Re: My boat has a knock, I don't know how it happened.

Just wondering...........how much are they asking for stroked short block?
 

baconbiscut

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Jul 11, 2006
Messages
356
Re: My boat has a knock, I don't know how it happened.

Mercury wants nearly five grand but they will only sell a long block. US engines wants 2100 for a short block.
 

FreeBeeTony

Captain
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May 15, 2002
Messages
3,991
Re: My boat has a knock, I don't know how it happened.

What exactly is wrong with the block you have now? Is it just the crank/bearings that are scored or did you actually spin a bearing? Can you replace the rotating assembly and use the block?.........just a thought.
 

Gary H NC

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Re: My boat has a knock, I don't know how it happened.

Not a bad price and sounds like a good warranty.
 

baconbiscut

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Messages
356
Re: My boat has a knock, I don't know how it happened.

What exactly is wrong with the block you have now? Is it just the crank/bearings that are scored or did you actually spin a bearing? Can you replace the rotating assembly and use the block?.........just a thought.

I actually don't know, I do know that the crank is scored and that it would be expensive replace at least that's what my mechanic said. He said that he could send the crank to a machine shop but he felt that was not the best route (I don't know why perhaps someone could fill me in on this). Also he believes that scoring on the crankshaft was caused by debris and perhaps there is something wrong with the block.
 

proshadetree

Lieutenant Commander
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Jul 19, 2008
Messages
1,887
Re: My boat has a knock, I don't know how it happened.

You can get a 282 kit a load cheaper that 2500 dollars.Check Scatt for a crank.Have a competent shop build your engine. You mech might know boats but Im starting to wonder if he knows engines.
 

HT32BSX115

Supreme Mariner
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Dec 8, 2005
Messages
10,083
Re: My boat has a knock, I don't know how it happened.

Howdy,

A couple of years ago I installed a "reman" longblock from USENGINES in a friends boat. No problems. I cannot speak to the warranty. There's nothing wrong with the engine.

But if he did have a problem he would either have to deliver the engine to them or drag the boat over there (about 20 miles away)

If he lived on the east coat.....well it would be harder.

If I had your problem I would probably get a long or short block from them. If I lived on the east coast, I would find a good machine shop that builds a LOT of marine stroker SBC engines and go to them.

I think they could use your engine and possibly be able to regrind your crankshaft. If not, there are companies that sell Scat crankshafts.

One example I found had a whole page of them from $345-$600 of forged cranks some strokers etc.

http://www.kmjent.com/cart/home.php?cat=20164559

Cranks can also be repaired. http://www.prlog.org/10420799-crankshaft-repair-and-remanufacturing.html

I would defer to a reputable machine shop for that. I would want to know if a racing/marine/high performance crank could be repaired and if they would cover it.

Going with someone local gives them the ability to offer a warranty locally.



Good luck,


Rick
 

airdvr1227

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jul 15, 2009
Messages
1,666
Re: My boat has a knock, I don't know how it happened.

As satisfying as that my sound I'm not really interested. IF we were to take Mercruiser to court it would be a long drawn out process. I know that they were in the wrong here but taking them to court wouldn't get me on the water any faster.

You still can later...just keep your receipts. :cool:
 

StevNimrod

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Dec 13, 2008
Messages
343
Re: My boat has a knock, I don't know how it happened.

I need to get a block that's stroked is there anywhere I can find one. I have to be able to dress the block with with the Mercruiser parts, The MPI i believe is off of the 377 6.2. Could someone enlighten me on what my options are. I looked at Rapido but they have nothing stroked.

My understanding is you'll have to get a "regular" block and have it "stroker clearanced". The block I used was casting #880 and the stroker clearancing can be done by a local reputable machine shop and isn't terribly expensive. Check around locally for a block, a machine shop may have access; if all else fails I have a few in the garage.

As far as displacement goes, there are several ways to arrive at cubic inches you need:

4.00 inch bore x 3.75 inch stroke - 377 ci (#1)
4.00 inch bore x 3.80 inch stroke - 383 ci (#2)
4.03 inch bore x 3.75 inch stroke - 383 ci (#3)

Don't quote me on this, but I think the Merc stroker is #2.

You could also have the crank ground. My understanding is you can grind as much as 0.030". In fact, some guys prefer grinding 0.030" as this allows for bigger radii at the throws (which is where many cranks break), resulting in a "better" crank. Again, this is at the word of several reputable engine builders, not me.

Going with a local shop is probably an option that should be seriously considered. All else being equal, a warranty is only as good as whoever is backing it, and you'll find that a lot of warranties are secured through third parties and there is a lot of red tape.

I went locally when I did my 383 last season. There was an issue with the block after only a few hours, and while there was no written warranty the owner of the shop fixed it for free.

Also, you'd be surprised at how quickly the legal process can work if the company sees you are serious. To my understanding, Merc is owned by Brunswick, and unless it's "bet the company" litigation they tend to like to get the small stuff settled quickly. It would probably cost them well in excess of $10K to have their outside counsel show up for a one day hearing, and about the same to draft motions and letters. To avoid exposure to negligence and being hit with damages in excess of replacement costs for the engine, it's a better business move to get you a new engine and stipulate that you can't disclose the details of the settlement.

Make sure you have all of your documentation now. And have it IN WRITING. You don't want to decide in six months to go after them and rely on the memory and interests of the local dealer at that time.

Just my $0.02.
 

jy118lfd

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 18, 2004
Messages
497
Re: My boat has a knock, I don't know how it happened.

Wait a second... You are saying that you have a 6.2 mpi motor that scored the crank and may need some bearings? And you want to replace the whole short block?



At best you can disassemble the motor and have the crank cut .010 under on both the rods and mains install new bearings and an oil pump. Don't forget to clean the block until you are sure there is no debris in the motor.

By the way a rebuilt short block will most definately have a .010 under crank in it anyway.

The other way is to buy a balanced rotating assembly and install it in the block you have. The bores would need to be deglazed (honed) and everything cleaned up real good. (Same thing for a bearing change) and put the motor together.

Minimal machine work and a rotating kit in the 5 to 700.00 dollar range and you would be good to go.

If it were mine I would disassemble the motor and have a look. Cutting the crank and installing new bearings is not that hard to do and you could probably have the motor back together for less than 350.00 Plus you would know what you have.

That rebuilt motor may have a .020 or .030 under crank.

Ps Detonation in the form of a ping can take out a set of rod bearings in short order. But that can be determined upon teardown. It would benifit you to see why the motor has a knock not just that it has one.
 

northernmerc

Chief Petty Officer
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Apr 6, 2009
Messages
401
Re: My boat has a knock, I don't know how it happened.

Maybe this is going off on a tangent a little, but . . .

If I read the comments above properly, some of you are saying that one should not fully open the throttle in one rapid movement from a stop, maybe especially when pulling a load. That's news to me.:confused:

We bought a Sea Ray 180 with a Mercruiser 4.3 in 1992. It has made hundreds and hundreds of full throttle starts pulling skiers out of the water over the years. We don't ease up on the throttle until the skier is fully up and at speed. It came with an aluminum 3 blade 21 pitch, which we switched to a SS 5 blade 19 pitch after a number of years in order to bring skiers up faster.

The 4.3 still pulls strong and shows no signs of engine damage. The only mechanical work it has had in 18 years is one new set of spark plugs. Carburetor settings have never been touched since new.

Am I misreading the posts above? Are you guys really saying not to make full throttle starts?
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
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Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: My boat has a knock, I don't know how it happened.

It may be a tangent, but I agree with you. The engine doesn't know what it's pushing. A lower pitch propeller presents less of a lug condition, and overspeed is overspeed. The point being that I do not understand why you can't hammer the throttle with a new, lower pitch prop as long as you don't exceed max RPM. The fact is that these things (later model I/Os and OBs) have built in overspeed protection so I don't even think that is a risk.

Hammering the throttle, and leaving it hammered when it is overpropped, now that could be an issue. With that said, if an engine is gaining in RPM, it is not "lugging" . . . Also . . . when was the last time you saw a warning from an engine manufacturer not to use the available power (hammered)? You are paying for all of the engine's attributes, not any single one. And . . . hammering from idle is naturally smoothed out as the propeller load is progressive. Again, why does the engine care if you gradually hammer it or instantaneously hammer it? Either way it is going to WOT, and the load is the same when you do get there. It either gets there by you easing into it or by the hydrodynamics "easing" it into it. Either way you reach a point of full load while transitioning through part load conditions.

I don't like beating my stuff up either, but hammering it home is not going to kill it unless there is something wrong to begin with . . .
 

StevNimrod

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Dec 13, 2008
Messages
343
Re: My boat has a knock, I don't know how it happened.

I think it comes down to the difference in weight.

To my understanding:
power = work / time = change in kinetic energy / change in time.

Which works out (assuming you start from 0 velocity) to:
power = (mv^2)/2t

So if you drop the hammer (small "t" value) on a light boat (small "m" value) the power number may not approach the rated power of the engine and all is well.

If you drop the hammer in a heavy boat (large "m" value) you will probably be working the engine closer to it's rated power. At this point only so many things can happen: either the speed ("v") is low, or something eventually breaks.

Almost everyone I know who has a lighter boat with a SBC has years of pretty much trouble free service (including hammering). My theory is that the hp-to-weight ratio is better on a lighter boat than a heavy boat and the engines aren't always working at the hairy edge of their rated output.

My boat came from the factory with a 235HP Merc, 4100 dry. Don't know who thought it was a good idea to make that. For some idiot to buy :eek:.
 

QC

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Mar 22, 2005
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22,783
Re: My boat has a knock, I don't know how it happened.

If you drop the hammer in a heavy boat (large "m" value) you will probably be working the engine closer to it's rated power. At this point only so many things can happen: either the speed ("v") is low, or something eventually breaks.
You left out the most likely outcome . . . the boat climbs over the bow wave and then accelerates, you back out of the throttle and settle back to a decent cruise speed ;) Yes, it will work harder than a smaller boat at the same cruise speed, but that doesn't mean it will break :confused:

My contention is the same, hammering off of idle, light boat or heavy, is not a one-way ticket to a failure. Harder on all of the components than easing up to speed 100 RPM at a time? Of course, but not an imminent failure waiting to happen. Higher percent load factors (heavier boat at the same speed) are also a ticket to shorter engine life, but not necessarily from a failure, they just wear out sooner . . .
 

StevNimrod

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Re: My boat has a knock, I don't know how it happened.

You left out the most likely outcome . . . the boat climbs over the bow wave and then accelerates, you back out of the throttle and settle back to a decent cruise speed ;) Yes, it will work harder than a smaller boat at the same cruise speed, but that doesn't mean it will break :confused:

Agreed. And the larger the boat, the more power it takes to get the mass to overcome the bow wave and the boat might not "be able to get out of it's own wake".

Unfortunately it's not one of those if-then situations. If you do this, then this will happen. So if someone wants to purposely work their engine harder than necessary, don't let me stop them; I'm not paying the bill. We all get out there and put the boat through it's paces and as those things go I've done my fair share. But at some point knowing when to lay off is like knowing how much to torque a bolt - "a quarter turn before it snaps."

My contention is the same, hammering off of idle, light boat or heavy, is not a one-way ticket to a failure. Harder on all of the components than easing up to speed 100 RPM at a time? Of course, but not an imminent failure waiting to happen. Higher percent load factors (heavier boat at the same speed) are also a ticket to shorter engine life, but not necessarily from a failure, they just wear out sooner . . .

Very few things are a one-way ticket to failure. I ran for a few hours last season with substantial water ingestion and the performance was still there. My welder got water in his engine years ago and bent rods immediately. You can try to push more than 400HP out of a stock bottom end and have it live. And you can be right under 400HP and not last five hours. Especially is the last case true in situations like this where we're talking about production line engines. They just need to stay together long enough for the warranty to expire.

I think how hard to throttle up comes down to preference and in the end I look at it like Pascal's Gambit: if the two choices are 1) put the hammer down, or 2) take it a bit easier; I'd pick option two, if for no other reason than there is, to me, less downside to being wrong.
 

QC

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Mar 22, 2005
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Re: My boat has a knock, I don't know how it happened.

Agreed ^^^^ with the understanding that there are usually more than two choices.

To try and bring this hijack back down to earth. I was responding to northernmerc (post #52) who I believe was responding to Philster's posts early in this thread. While I consider Philster a knowledgeable guy, I do not agree that hammering the throttle from 0 - 100% is inherently bad.
 

StevNimrod

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Re: My boat has a knock, I don't know how it happened.

At the end of the day we're all on the same page in trying to do the same thing - have as much fun boating as possible.

To give back the hijacked thread - any word from Dan in the way of updates to the situation?
 

northernmerc

Chief Petty Officer
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Apr 6, 2009
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Re: My boat has a knock, I don't know how it happened.

Great! Now that we have that settled, back to business.:D
 

grego

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Dec 12, 2008
Messages
328
Re: My boat has a knock, I don't know how it happened.

I agree with QC. a few degree prop change will not make a big difference. The boat had problems from before. LEMON!
 
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