Military Questions

[PatPatterson]

Re: Military Questions

Originally posted by mattttt25:<br /> couple points of clarification...<br /><br />....another is an ldo or limited duty officer. these officers recieve the rank of ensign and up, but are obviosuly looked at much differently and receive much different jobs.....<br /><br />

These are called "Restricted Line Officers", (thus the Limited Duty Officer title in LDO) and can not rise to cammand level. They fill billets as the Chief Engineer, Chief Weapons officers etc. on Ships, and usually top out at Commander (Navy). I am not sure of the level they can get to in other branches.

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: Military Questions

Spratt, I am planning ahead. <br /><br />I dont know much about the military, no one close to me was in it.<br /><br />He has said since he could talk that he wants to be in the Army in the Infantry.<br /><br />It would make me proud if he choose to do this, so I will try to encourage him along the way.<br /><br />I always point out the ROTC when we go to things, and suggest to him if he wants to be in the military, that is the way to go. Do you all agree?<br /><br />Ken

 

[spratt]

Re: Military Questions

When teh time comes, you may not feel that way...but it is honorable to want to serve this great country we live in!!! I did my 4 years, and wish a lot of times I had served for 24 years!!!

 

[PatPatterson]

Re: Military Questions

My son is 14, and has expressed interest in the military. Most of the men in my family have served, so my son has grown around men who have served, and I guess it is a natural extension for him to be interested.<br /><br />I have advised him that it is much better to go to college, and get a commision if he wants to serve, because of the opportunities that are there for officers, and the opportunities that will be there if he gets in, and decides that he does not want to make a career of the military.<br /><br />I have told him that it is an honorable thing to do, and that it can be an exciting way to make your living. I have also told him that it is a tough, demanding way to make a living, and that it should not be done unless you feel a calling to do it.

 

[Drowned Rat]

Re: Military Questions

Hi there Ken. I think it's great that you're looking into it. ROTC is a great way to get structure in your life at an early age, but it's not for everyone. Most programs are quite regimented and most participants are very gung ho. Not at all a bad thing, it's just different and not all kids respond to it favorably or with the right attitude. If your son is already interested, he will probably love it though. The Coast Guard is a wonderful option you might want to look at. They have a huge peace time mission that includes search and rescue, law enforcement, drug interdiction, maintenance for aids to navagation, etc... It's small, around 40,000 people. An average base has about 20 people. It has more of a fire department feel than a military feel in some aspects. But, you get all the benefits of being in the military including the GI bill for college. Low risk of being put in a combat situation, although overseas assignments do happen. The Coast Guard is older than the Navy, (established by Alexander Hamilton on Aug. 4th 1790) it's the 11th largest naval fleet in the world and the biggest coast guard. <br /><br />Just my 2c, it's a great way to go but then I'm a little biased.

 

[JasonJ]

Re: Military Questions

Some of the best officers I worked under were those who had been enlisted and NCOs for a number of years. They knew how things worked, and they knew how to deal with the soldiers. Cherry officers showing up fresh from the Academy with that new officer smell, they can plan things great, but they had no idea how to implement it. They don't always relate to the soldiers well. I had a 1st Lieutenant tell me once that he gets paid $1000 more a month than I do to be smarter than I am. I told him that the Army is getting ripped off then. His comment was prompted when I told him his planned would not work. That is what the Non-Commissioned Officer (Sergeant, Staff sergeant, etc)is for. The officer plans the mission, the non-commisioned officer makes that plan happen, the enlisted do the grunt work. <br /><br />The smart officer listens to his NCOs, because the NCOs have seen what works and what does not work. If you ever have a bad higher ranking officer in the military it is because he had bad NCOs or he did not listen to his NCOs. That is why you hear the term "Sir? I work for a living!" It is implied that officers do not actually work. The thing about officers is that they take on the most responsibiities. When the plan fails, the officer is who takes the bullet when its arse chewing time. I never wanted to be an officer. They worked very long hours doing what they do, it is not to be envied.<br /><br />The other problem with officers is that they tend to be more glory oriented. Often they have or had familiy members who achieved glory in a prior war, and they want their bit of the action. NCOs, on the other hand, do not want their soldiers needlessly put in harms way. You will always see the 1st Seargent in the Company Commanders office yelling up a storm because the CO wants to do something stupid and the 1sg does not want the soldiers to endure stupidity. Senior NCOs and Officers fight like cats and dogs over stupid decisions, because it is the NCO who gets to tell the soldiers they will now be doing something dangerous or stupid.<br /><br />In the Army, there is nothing more dangerous than a brand new 2nd Lieutenant, fresh from academy. They need careful feeding and guidance by us NCOs, or they fail.

 

[tcube]

Re: Military Questions

Ken,<br /><br />I did Air Force Officer Training School (Navy calls it OCS) instead of ROTC. If I had it to do over, I'd do ROTC and let Uncle pay for some of my education.<br /><br />In case you're interested, here are a couple of links to show you enlisted and officer rank insignia by grade.<br /> Enlisted <br /> Officer

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: Military Questions

Thanks guys, I have tried to talk him into other areas of the military, but he sticks with the infantryman. I said "at least drive a tank" and nope. We'll see how he changes his mind as he grows up.<br /><br />He does have prety good aim, just shot the 30-30 last week and first shot was 2 inches from the bull and second was in the bull.<br /><br />I also like the coast guard, my cousin just joined. Post 9/11 they have really stepped up their importance, and in my opinion, they should double their ranks. They are the first line of defence in many areas.<br /><br />Ken

 

[JasonJ]

Re: Military Questions

If he goes Infantry, he most likely will end up on the M2A3 Bradley. Sort of a tank, has multiple weapons system, does kick arse. It is what I was, Mechanized Infantry. It is fun, but I really wish I would have done something different. I scored very high on the asfab, especially in technical areas. I was offered positions in turbine repair, anything mechanical, electronics, that sort of thing.<br /><br />But I was 17, and I was stupid. They showed me videos of dudes working on helicopters and M1 tank tubine engines and missiles and all of that and I was like "Boring!". Then they showed that damn Bradley flying off of a jump, firing on targets while in the air. They showed soldiers spilling out the arse end of that damn Bradley, doing all sorts of soldier crap, and I was all "Dude, I want that!" There was no openings for M1 tank at the time, so I couldn't go that route. All I knew was that I wanted to be in a huge armored something blowing things up.<br /><br />There is a lot of technology, there is no such thing as the "dumb grunt" anymore, but if you can guide him to something that is applicable in the outside world, he will be so much better off. I have yet to find a civilian job that has a need for my ability to operate a multiple weapons platform and engage/destroy near and far targets in all weather conditions, day or night.

 

[Twidget]

Re: Military Questions

if you can guide him to something that is applicable in the outside world, he will be so much better off.

This is sooo true. I had friends that put in 6/8 years as an EW(Electronic Warfare)and not be get a job. We did radar surveillance, missile threat detection and radar deception. For the pure operator branch of my rating, life after enlistment sucked. I was fortunately smart(lucky) enough to have taken the technician/operator route, so I had quite a bit of electronic training when I was discharged. <br /><br />

If you ever have a bad higher ranking officer in the military it is because he had bad NCOs or he did not listen to his NCOs.

Truer words have never been spoken.

 

[mattttt25]

Re: Military Questions

jason, you make some pretty strong comments about officers. unless you were one, i think your comments are a little too strong.<br /><br />there will always be some stereotypes with academy grads. "they think they know everything." "they are the best of the best." neither is true. while i think my education easily rivals that of an ivy league school, and that my military development was better than anything obtainable from rotc or ocs, i know the academy is not the greatest thing. the good thing about having numerous commissioning sources is that we get an officer corps that is diverse. they come with different backgrounds, education, etc. it keeps officers from being bred to act and think just one way.<br /><br />it is true that an officer's 1st few tours are dependent on the type of nco he/she gets and how much advice they take. my first chief was on the way out at 20 years and was terrible. i struggled with little help and advice. my second division had a superb senior chief that guided me the whole way. we worked together. he taught me everything he knew about the division and leadership, and i think he learned from me. it worked well, and we still talk today after several years. even though he calls me sir during every conversation, there is mutial respect. i know what he has been through and the experience he has, but he also knows what i have been through and the training i have received. <br /><br />military pay is a tricky thing. enlisted are way underpaid in my opinion, but congress has done well to try and right that over the last few years. if the troops were paid what they really deserve, the taxpayers could not afford a military like one we have. officers get more because we are college educated and expected to be the leaders and upper management of this huge company we call the miliatry. not saying we necessarily deserve it, but if the military did not pay officers better salaries, they could not expect to fill their ranks. too much money available on the outside for this caliber of person.<br /><br />ken, you have some time, but keep your son interested in the military. if he seems to be college bound, at least help him understand what the academies and rotc scholarships offer. if he is not headed to college, ensure he is well educated on the opportunities that come with enlisting in the services. but don't push, as a life in the military should be a personal decision. good luck-

 

[spratt]

Re: Military Questions

Originally posted by Twidget:<br />[QB]

if you can guide him to something that is applicable in the outside world, he will be so much better off.

I too, had some very good training in the military, and since I was in the Naval Aviation field, when I relocated to Washington ti made it easy to get a job with the Boeing Aircraft Company.

 

[JasonJ]

Re: Military Questions

My opinions are based on over a decade of dealing with a vast amount of officers. If you can't handle that, thats your problem. I knew countless officers, a lot of them where my friends, and a lot of them depended on my superior real world experience. Most where good men, but some where not good men. Most did their job very well, some got men killed or injured needlessly out of arrogance or stubbornness. <br /><br />Unless you have been an NCO, you cannot understand.

 

[BoatBuoy]

Re: Military Questions

Ken,<br /> He can have it both ways, so to speak. My BIL joined the Army as an enlisted man - did 6 years. Came out, went back and finished college, and rejoined as 2nd Lieutenant. 16 years later, he retired. Went to Desert Storm as a Captain on a Bradley by the way.