Mercury 1500 "Tower Of Power" timing / idle question

[2freeq]

Hi all. Im new here and new to boating in general. I recently brought a 17 foot Bertram Caribbean with a 150hp Mercury 1500 outboard. it would take stall a few times when putting it in gear untill you flukes the revs being perfect then it would take out and power away. Any RPM above idle was smooth and powerful. At WOT it would only rev to 4000rpm but that was quick enough. The kids want to have a go on the tube behind the boat so i need to sort out the take off issue and possibly get a few more RPM out of the motor.

After doing some research i think it has to do with the Timing being out as when the dizzy starts to turn as throttle is applied, im getting to half throttle before the lever attached to the carby butterflys starts to open. so i googled as much as i could and found this youtube video on doing a "Link and Sync"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSk01fvCbec

I did exactly what he has done to his motor to mine and it started reasonably easy but it wouldnt idle so i went back and googled how to adjust the idle and found this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9w9zxAJ46Ts

Now my question is, if i adjust the idle up as seen in the second video wouldnt that throw out the "zero degree" timing i had to set in the first video? is there a different way of adjusting the idle?

 

[alldodge]

Hi all. Im new here and new to boating in general. I recently brought a 17 foot Bertram Caribbean with a 150hp Mercury 1500 outboard. it would take stall a few times when putting it in gear untill you flukes the revs being perfect then it would take out and power away. Any RPM above idle was smooth and powerful. At WOT it would only rev to 4000rpm but that was quick enough. The kids want to have a go on the tube behind the boat so i need to sort out the take off issue and possibly get a few more RPM out of the motor.

After doing some research i think it has to do with the Timing being out as when the dizzy starts to turn as throttle is applied, im getting to half throttle before the lever attached to the carby butterflys starts to open. so i googled as much as i could and found this youtube video on doing a "Link and Sync"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSk01fvCbec

I did exactly what he has done to his motor to mine and it started reasonably easy but it wouldnt idle so i went back and googled how to adjust the idle and found this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9w9zxAJ46Ts

Now my question is, if i adjust the idle up as seen in the second video wouldnt that throw out the "zero degree" timing i had to set in the first video? is there a different way of adjusting the idle?

:welcome: to iboats

As a non-outboard expert I looked through the two videos. Timing is setup to allow the max amount (total) of advance for WOT. The settings allows for the idle setup through max advance. Idle is set at zero degree, so by lowering the idle your retarding the timing a slight bit more.

So before you had lets say a total advance from 0 to 18 degrees. After reducing the idle your timing well be lets say -2 to 18 degrees. Your WOT advance has not changed, only the idle. Engines are damaged when timing is off from mid range to WOT.

Maybe an outboard expert type will be along later

 

[racerone]

Facts #1.-----You set / adjust maximum timing advance,------------Fact #2 is the idle pick-up timing is the timing where the carburetors start to open up and that means it is a linkage / carburetor adjustment.----Fact # 3 it does simply not matter where the engine idles as far as setting timing , the further retarded the better it is as far as condition of the motor.---Fact # 4 --The carburetors must be fully closed at idle.--Fact # 5 --If that motor will not go to 5500 RPM you need to find out why that is.-If you had a plugged carburetor you would be starving 2 cylinders of oil.--That could be expensive !!!!

 

[Fed]

Some extra background...
http://www.fishraider.com.au/Invision/index.php?showtopic=76069
Fact # 6 Get the prop idea out of your head I think Huey was having a bad day.

I'd pull the plugs and shake them onto the palm of your hand looking for water droplets, also check for any rust forming on the business ends of the plugs.

Needless to say a compression test at the same time.

Didn't they have 6 carbs Racerone, one for each cylinder?

 

[racerone]

3 caburetors on a tower of power.

 

[2freeq]

Ok im not sure if you watched the video or not but fact 1 - done that, fact 2 - done that also, fact 3 is the answer i was searching for, fact 4 - they are but this nothing to do with the question asked, fact 5 i am trying to find the reason why. this is why im looking at the timing, fact 6 im not looking at the prop anymore as it was suggested to me if i was over propped that is why i had no holeshot and low rpm at wot hence the question. but when you get no response on the other forum i decided to ask a updated question here.

Can admin please delete this thread

 

[Fed]

Thanks for the heads up Racerone.

Didn't mean to upset you 2freeq but I'm not a member of the other site and when I stumbled on your post here I took the opportunity to steer you away from changing props.

Interesting how answering posts in bullet form (Fact # 7) seems to upset some people, seen it many times before.

 

[achris]

Hi all. Im new here and new to boating in general. I recently brought a 17 foot Bertram Caribbean with a 150hp Mercury 1500 outboard. it would take stall a few times when putting it in gear untill you flukes the revs being perfect then it would take out and power away. Any RPM above idle was smooth and powerful. At WOT it would only rev to 4000rpm but that was quick enough. The kids want to have a go on the tube behind the boat so i need to sort out the take off issue and possibly get a few more RPM out of the motor.

After doing some research i think it has to do with the Timing being out as when the dizzy starts to turn as throttle is applied, im getting to half throttle before the lever attached to the carby butterflys starts to open. so i googled as much as i could and found this youtube video on doing a "Link and Sync"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSk01fvCbec

I did exactly what he has done to his motor to mine and it started reasonably easy but it wouldnt idle so i went back and googled how to adjust the idle and found this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9w9zxAJ46Ts

Now my question is, if i adjust the idle up as seen in the second video wouldnt that throw out the "zero degree" timing i had to set in the first video? is there a different way of adjusting the idle?

Hi 2freeq,

Sorry to be the one to burst your bubble, but you didn't buy a Bertram. Bertram in Australia never built a 17'. They did/do a 20', 23', 25', 26', 28', 32', 35' and a 42'.... When John Haines was building them under license (way back in the 60s, before International Marine in Melbourne got the license) he also did a 15', an 18' and a 19'... Nobody ever made a 17' Bertram...

A couple of things to note on those engines. Firstly, you absolutely MUST make sure you're getting to 5500-6000 rpm at wide open. If you don't, you WILL detonate pistons. Secondly, for a poor idle, check the transfer bypass restrictors. If the engine has had even the slightest overheat in the past, they will have melted and gone. You need to pull the transfer port cover and check they are still in place.

Chris.........

 

[2freeq]

Hi 2freeq,

Sorry to be the one to burst your bubble, but you didn't buy a Bertram. Bertram in Australia never built a 17'. They did/do a 20', 23', 25', 26', 28', 32', 35' and a 42'.... When John Haines was building them under license (way back in the 60s, before International Marine in Melbourne got the license) he also did a 15', an 18' and a 19'... Nobody ever made a 17' Bertram...

A couple of things to note on those engines. Firstly, you absolutely MUST make sure you're getting to 5500-6000 rpm at wide open. If you don't, you WILL detonate pistons. Secondly, for a poor idle, check the transfer bypass restrictors. If the engine has had even the slightest overheat in the past, they will have melted and gone. You need to pull the transfer port cover and check they are still in place.

Chris.........

OK........... so the big writing on the side of my boat that says BERTRAM CARIBBEAN 521, the compliance plate that says Bertram caribbean and my rego papers that say Bertram with the length listed on rego paper as 5.21m and the boat physically measures 5.21m is wrong? well ill be damned. My boat must be special

 

[achris]

OK........... so the big writing on the side of my boat that says BERTRAM CARIBBEAN 521, the compliance plate that says Bertram caribbean and my rego papers that say Bertram with the length listed on rego paper as 5.21m and the boat physically measures 5.21m is wrong? well ill be damned. My boat must be special

Do you have a year of build on the boat? The '1500' 150hp in-line 6 finished in the 70s, so unless that's an old engine on a new boat, then I would suspect some 'creative graphics' has been used. The other thing of note is that Bertram doesn't use the metric measurement in model names, even on their new boats now.

 

[2freeq]

i dont know anything about bertrams history. i have no idea what year model it is,

on the compliance plate it says

BERTRAM-CARIBBEAN
MANUFACTURED BY
INTERNATIONAL (AUST) PTY LTD
FERNTTREE GULLY ROAD, SCORESBY, VICTORIA, AUSTALIA
SERIAL NO. 18909 MODEL 189
RECOMMENDED MAX PASSENGER CAPACITY 6 ADULTS
RECOMMENDED MAX HORSEPOWER CAPACITY 150HP
THIS BOAT IS MADE IN ACCORDANCE WITH
AUSTRALIAN STANDARD SPECIFICATION NO A.S F3

The sticker on the side looks aged and orginal and says BERTRAM CARIBBEAN 521. no idea if it orginal though

rego papers say

manufacturer - bertram
length - 5.21
material - fibreglass
hull type - o runabout

 

[achris]

I have no doubt what you have was built in the factory at International Marine. But the brands "Bertram" and "Caribbean" are licensed to International Marine by Bertram Yacht Co. USA for construction in Australia. I also know that many Caribbean owners like to say they have a Bertram, because of the reputation the Bertram hull has. But even built in the same factory, they are from different molds, and are actually quite different hulls. International Marine also built the 'Pride' range of boats too. In fact one of the Pride range in the late 70s was labeled, by International Marine as a Bertram. Bertram Yacht found out about it and made them discontinue the line. The use by International Marine of putting the Bertram name and the Caribbean name on the Compliance plate is to try and associate the 2 brands together, despite them being completely different hulls.

As I said earlier, International Marine has never used anything but the imperial length as a model designator on any of the Bertram line.

If you ring International Marine and quote the model and serial number they will tell you exactly what it is, the date the keel was laid, and who was the original purchaser....

Now, this has taken the thread completely off track, which was not my aim. You have an engine problem, how's that going? And if the engine in your avatar picture is the engine we're talking about, it's a 1976/1977 model...

Chris.......

 

[2freeq]

lol the engine drama is at the back of my mind now. im trying to work out what sort of bloody boat i have. its very similar to this one on gumtree but mine has a small low windscreen and the dash isnt cut away in the centre

http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/para...boats/bertram-carribean-safari-v17/1068280755

 

[achris]

Call International Marine with the model and serial number and find out for sure.... (phone number in the link in the post above)

 

[Chris1956]

Freeq, The motor in your picture is a 1976 or 1977 Merc 1500, if the cowling is original Idle pickup timing is 4-6*BTDC and max advance is 21*BTDC. Get those two correct, and the rest is carb cleaning and adjustment, provided the compression is good..

 

[merc850]

These steps are from the 1975 manual

 

[Back yard boater]

Can someone help me I have a 1978 inline 6 gm 165 I can get it to start and run with 5 plugs but when I got to put in all 6 plugs it wont start

 

[achris]

This thread is a) more than 4 years old (read the forum rules on old threads) and b) in the Mercury outboard forum, and best I can tell, you have a Mercruiser sterndrive.

Thread closed.