Mercruiser 4.3 Knocking noise when idle

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Re: Mercruiser 4.3 Knocking noise when idle

Ok thanks for your input I think a compression test could be the next thing! If it was a lifter or a weak valve spring is it ok to run for the rest of the summer? It still seems to be coming from the timing chain though? Could it be just a worn chain?

Thanks again

At this point gudgeon pin; lifter /valve; timing chain/gears are all still possibilities:(
Let us know what the compression #'s are.

If it's a collapsed lifter it should be replaced ASAP! We can't tell you if it's ok to use the boat or not :( Personally, I wouldn't run any engine that had a distinct knock.
 
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adam125

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Re: Mercruiser 4.3 Knocking noise when idle

Ok what's the best way to diagnoise a lifter or valve problem with taking the engine out ?

Thank you
 

achris

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Re: Mercruiser 4.3 Knocking noise when idle

Pull the rocker covers off and have a look at the amount of oil being pumped by each lifter. A collapsed lifter will not be pumping anywhere near as much as the others.

Chris......
 

flipbro

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Re: Mercruiser 4.3 Knocking noise when idle

Mabe a bad harmonic balancer Just throwing it out there! Grab hold of it and see if the outer ring is loose on it!
 

adam125

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Re: Mercruiser 4.3 Knocking noise when idle

Hi guys checked the harmonic balancer seems to be all good there! if I have a bad lifter is it possible to replace theses without removing the head? I am taking the rocker covers off tonight! hopefully to find something that isn't to much of a big deal to fix!

Adam :)
 

achris

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Re: Mercruiser 4.3 Knocking noise when idle

Don't need to remove head, but intake manifold does have to come off....

Chris....
 

adam125

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Re: Mercruiser 4.3 Knocking noise when idle

Removed the rocker covers everything was perfect! Going to remove the intake manifold next check the lifters! Any tips when looking for bad lifters? Also when removing the intake manifold? As I can't run the engine with the intake off how do you tell if the lifters are bad?

Adam
 

Bondo

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Re: Mercruiser 4.3 Knocking noise when idle

Removed the rocker covers everything was perfect! Going to remove the intake manifold next check the lifters! Any tips when looking for bad lifters? Also when removing the intake manifold? As I can't run the engine with the intake off how do you tell if the lifters are bad?

Adam

Ayuh,.... Before ya tear it down any further,...

Run through the valve adjustin' sequence, only not adjustin', but just checkin' to see that their adjusted 'bout Right,...

If ya got a Bad lifter, it'll be Waayyy outa adjustment, noticeably so,...

Ya gotta roll the motor over to Tdc, 'n follow the sequence in the manual,...

Then you'll know Which 1 yer lookin' for,.... ;)

Did ya do the Compression test,..?? What's the Numbers,..??
 
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slothman

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Re: Mercruiser 4.3 Knocking noise when idle

bad lifters will make more of a tick, if it was the piston slapping around it would make a LOUD knocking sound. I don't think it's a major engine issue because you have good oil pressure. Good luck !
 

tank1949

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Re: Mercruiser 4.3 Knocking noise when idle

I don't think that a wrist pin "slap" condition can be detected by removing the plug wire (OP said he tried that) - also it would still be noticeable at higher speeds.
Assuming it's not a low idle oil pressure - I'm wondering if it is a timing chain/gear/tensioner "problem"?


May isolate precise cylinder.
 

adam125

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Re: Mercruiser 4.3 Knocking noise when idle

hoping to get stuck into this weekend if I find a bad lifter do you recommend changing all the lifters or just that one?

ADAM :)
 

adam125

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Re: Mercruiser 4.3 Knocking noise when idle

Right I have an update for you all finally found the noise! All my lifters were good! The problem we found was the balancer shaft looks like the bearings have gone! It has alot of play I can rock it back an forth in both direction I'm guessing this must be the issue? Has anyone come across this before? Also any tips for changing the bearings?

Thanks for your help everyone

Adam
 

Volphin

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Re: Mercruiser 4.3 Knocking noise when idle

Adam, post up some pics. It could be the balancer shaft causing that noise as it runs on an unloaded/loaded helical gear. What do the gear teeth tell you?

See the following technical bulletin from the Automotive Engine Rebuilders Association (AERA).

Engine/Balance Shaft Rattle Noise On
1992-2003 GM 4.3L VIN W & X Engines

The AERA Technical Committee offers the following information regarding an engine/balance shaft rattle noise on 1992-2003 GM 4.3L VIN X & W engines.
The following information is to be used when diagnosing an audible noise condition such as an engine rattle, spark knock or valve train noise.

This noise may occur in the 2000-2500 rpm range, under a moderate to heavy engine load with the engine at operating temperature. According to GM research this noise may be due to a natural torsional harmonic vibration in the cam drive system, loading and unloading of the balance shaft and gear drive assembly.

GM engineering has determined that this noise does not present any durability risks to the engine or any of its components. Multiple attempts to solve the noise condition by changing cam drive or balance shaft components may prove to be unsuccessful. It is imperative that all normal diagnostic techniques be followed to assure that the rattle noise is NOT spark knock, piston rattle, bearing knock or some other noise for which repairs are required.

The AERA Technical Committee


HOWEVER, it sounds as if your issue is mainly at idle.
 
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Volphin

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Re: Mercruiser 4.3 Knocking noise when idle

Found a recent article on the subject...

GM 4.3L V6 Owners Rattled By Engine Noise

Some GM truck, SUV and minivan owners may complain about a rattle-type noise coming from the engine area at approximately 1,800 to 2,200 rpm.


The rattle-type noise that affects these GM vehicles with 4.3L V6 engines may be caused by torsional vibration of the balance shaft.
To fix the problem, follow the service procedure below for installing a new tensioner assembly kit. If detonation noise is present, perform detonation/spark knock diagnostic testing first.

Applicable Models: 1996-2003 4.3L V6 Engines found in Chevrolet Astro, Blazer, Express, S-10, Silverado and P Models; 1996-2003 GMC Jimmy, Safari, Savana, Sierra, Sonoma; and 1996-2001 Oldsmobile Bravada applications.

PARTS INFORMATION

Part Number Description
12458911 Chain Kit
89017257 Tensioner
10220906 Oil Pan Gasket
88893989 O-Ring and Gasket Kit
3754587 Water Pump Gasket (2)
89017259 Cover

Service Procedure:
1. Remove the engine front cover.

2. Remove the crankshaft sensor reluctor ring and line up the timing marks on the crank gear and camshaft gear.

3. Remove the camshaft gear and chain. For model years 1996-?98, remove the crankshaft sprocket using the J 5825-A crankshaft sprocket removal tool.

4. Pull the shipping pin and discard. Remove the nylon timing chain tensioner blade from the timing chain tensioner bracket.

5. Position the bracket on the front of the engine. The upper two attaching holes of the bracket will line up with the center two engine front cover bolt holes. The lower bracket holes will line up with the engine front cover alignment holes (see Figure 1).

6. Use a hammer and the J 46165 pin driver to install the dowel pins through the two lower holes in the bracket and into the engine block. Make sure that the bracket is held firmly in place before proceeding (see Figure 2).

7. For model years 1996-?98, install a roller-type timing chain set. Install the crankshaft sprocket using the J 5590 crankshaft gear installer. Install the timing chain around the crankshaft sprocket and position the timing chain to the driver?s side of the engine.

8. Install the nylon timing chain tensioner guide onto the timing chain tensioner bracket pin and
position the top of the guide under the tab at the top of the bracket (see Figure 3).

9. Install the camshaft sprocket into the chain and then to the camshaft. Install the bolts finger-tight. Make sure the timing marks are aligned, then tighten the camshaft sprocket bolt. Tighten the bolt to 18 ft.lbs. (25 Nm).

10. Install the crankshaft reluctor ring.

11. Install the engine front cover and place a washer under the two center cover bolts that extend through the tensioner bracket. These washers are required to maintain the proper crush on the engine front cover seal (see Figure 4). Tighten the bolts to 106 in.lbs. (12 Nm).
 
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Re: Mercruiser 4.3 Knocking noise when idle

hi all new to this site! it looks very helpful so thought id give it ago. I have mercruiser 4.3 v6 1998 it is running perfect no temp issues oil pressure all good. They only problem I have is an annoying knocking sound when it sits on idle seems to becoming from the timing chain area? I have removed the belt to ensure it was not the water pump or alternator ect... noise was still present I have also pulled each spark plug individually and the noise is still there? any help would be much appreciated thankyou

Adam :)

Hi There Adam . I May Have You Solution To The Problem. My Guess To Your Problem Is That Its The Cylinder Or Cylinders That Got Caught Out Of Alignment In The Piston Ring And Ever Revolution The Cylinders Make The Cylinder Tap On The Piston Rings And Wall And Make That Tapping Noise. Its Very Common Problem With V6 Style Engines. You Should Check To See If Its The Problem. Hope This Helped.
 

Silvertip

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Re: Mercruiser 4.3 Knocking noise when idle

That does not sound like a wrist pin and those motors are not known for that issue anyway. Install a timing light and watch the timing marks at idle. If they are moving around there is an issue with timing chain. On a Buick V6 for example, the plastic coating on the timing gears can wear away and the timing chain slaps the cover. Soon as you apply throttle it goes away. Although this motor does not use that type of gear, a very worn chain can slap the housing. As power is applied the slack comes out of the chain. Even if it turns out to be a collapsed hydraulic lifter, you will want to determine what's wrong. A broken timing chain at 4000 rpm can raise havoc even though these are not interference engines. A weak valve spring is not the issue either as it would be quiet at idle and get noisy at higher rpm as it would not be able to keep up with cam & lifter. Although a lifter with a leak-down rate may be the issue, I would look at other stuff first. Pull the valve covers and check for a worn push rod, rocker arm, or pivot ball. You can apply small pieces of aluminum foil over the oiling holes in the rocker to keep oil spray confined. The timing light check will show timing chain slack. Both of these checks are free and not time consuming chores. You can also verify a lifter issue using a .040 inch feeler gauge inserted between a rocker arm and valve tip with the engine running. Lifter noise will go away or at least reduce with insertion of the feeler gauge.
 
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tank1949

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Re: Mercruiser 4.3 Knocking noise when idle

Another retired guy has a good observation. I agree.

Pull both valve covers and slowley turn motor over by hand to see if lifter or adjustment needed. If rocker arms wiggle, that is a start in diagnosis. As things wear, gaps increase. My mothers car had a cam shaft that went south. After, I pulled valve covers I easily determined some cylinders were not getting proper open and close duration that should have been provided by cam lobes. I have had to re-adjust valves on v8s before. Unfortunately, she had used Quakerstate and not paid attention to motor as I had pleaded. I ended up putting another engine in her car. And, if you suspect readjustment is needed, do so and listen for sound to increase or decrease. This may not be the culprit, but I suspect this procedure is a lot easier than pulling chain cover and pan. Just a suggestion unless you are absolutely sure noise is coming from chain cover. .
 
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Re: Mercruiser 4.3 Knocking noise when idle

That does not sound like a wrist pin and those motors are not known for that issue anyway. Install a timing light and watch the timing marks at idle. If they are moving around there is an issue with timing chain. On a Buick V6 for example, the plastic coating on the timing gears can wear away and the timing chain slaps the cover. Soon as you apply throttle it goes away. Although this motor does not use that type of gear, a very worn chain can slap the housing. As power is applied the slack comes out of the chain. Even if it turns out to be a collapsed hydraulic lifter, you will want to determine what's wrong. A broken timing chain at 4000 rpm can raise havoc even though these are not interference engines. A weak valve spring is not the issue either as it would be quiet at idle and get noisy at higher rpm as it would not be able to keep up with cam & lifter. Although a lifter with a leak-down rate may be the issue, I would look at other stuff first. Pull the valve covers and check for a worn push rod, rocker arm, or pivot ball. You can apply small pieces of aluminum foil over the oiling holes in the rocker to keep oil spray confined. The timing light check will show timing chain slack. Both of these checks are free and not time consuming chores. You can also verify a lifter issue using a .040 inch feeler gauge inserted between a rocker arm and valve tip with the engine running. Lifter noise will go away or at least reduce with insertion of the feeler gauge.

you know i have rebuild over 100 mercruiser engine that were v6 and v8 and when i had the problem of the engine tapping at idle speed it always was the cylinder problem and for some interesting reason most of the problems were on the v6 models from 1995 - 2005 style engine carbed engines or fuel injection engines , so i have a felling this is what causing the problem . but your advice is good to !!!!!
 

adam125

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Re: Mercruiser 4.3 Knocking noise when idle

thanks again for all the information guys! like I said my balance shaft has a lot of play in the bearing I can move it a few mm left to right and back and forth would you say this normal? I can not find any others problems I don't have a stuck lifter iv pulled all the push rods nothing seems to be bent or worn? the noise always seemed to becoming from the timing chain cover and now I can see that the balance shaft is driven from the timing chain I am hoping its just a matter of replacing the bearings. or maybe installing one of these tensioner kits which is talked about above? has anyone changed these bearings before?

Adam :)
 

adam125

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Re: Mercruiser 4.3 Knocking noise when idle

also guys I might remove the drive gear to the balance shaft just to check it is balance shaft causing the noise. has any one removed the this drive gear before and left the shaft in place ?
:)
 
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