MerCruiser 3.0L fuel supply issue?

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Jimmyjamm

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May 25, 2017
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Hey guys. I've searched to the end of the internet for my specific problem, and while I've received lots of institutional knowledge from reading through many of your previous discussions on this site, I haven't been able to find a previous post that matches my exact issue. This is also my first post on the forums, so please be gentle!

A little backstory: I have a 2007 Tahoe Q4, with a MerCruiser 3.0L, and an Alpha One drive. Last September while in Destin, FL with the family, my boat stalled on us out of the blue, but it started back soon after. About 30 minutes later while pulling the kids on a tube, the engine died again. I visually checked everything over in the engine compartment, and I assumed it was from one of the usual suspects; bad gas, or maybe the distributor got wet, etc. I took my boat to the service center the next business day, and I asked them to attempt to diagnose the issue for me. After an entire month had passed, I finally got a call from the service center telling me that the carb needed to be replaced. I asked them why they couldn't just rebuild it. They tried to pull one over on me, saying that there was not a rebuild kit made for my specific carb, (Rotchester 2 barrel), and they wanted to charge me $950.00 to replace it. So, I kindly asked them to park my boat out front, I went and picked it up, and I never spoke to them again.

Fast forward to present time. I purchased a carb rebuild kit online, rebuilt the carb myself, (not my first time rebuilding a carb), and I reinstalled the carb. While I was at it, I went ahead and changed the oil and oil filter, and I replaced the plugs, wires, distributor cap and button, and I changed out the fuel filter, which is mounted inside the cup on the bottom side of the mechanical fuel pump. The boat still had about 10 gallons of treated gas in it from last season. So, just as a precaution, I used a hand pump through one of the valves on the top of the tank (I used the valve that connects the fuel pump suction line to the tank), and I pumped about 5 gallons of the fuel out, just to check it for trash, water, etc. All looked well, so the next day, I attempted to fire the boat up for the first time this year, and I had no fuel to the carb. To further investigate and diagnose the problem, I hooked up a fuel pressure gauge to the main fuel line, at the fitting where the fuel line hooks into the carb. The result was negligible; perhaps 2 PSI, but this was also while the engine was not running, (just attempting to start it). Of course, my first thought was the fuel pump. But just out of curiosity, I disconnected the fuel feed/suction line that runs from the fuel pump to the tank, and I used a small screwdriver to check for proper seating/operation of the anti siphon valve that's incorporated into the end of the fuel line, just prior to the tank connection. It seemed sticky, but there wasn't any noticeable trash or obstruction. Next, I reinstalled the fuel line, and I hooked up my hand pump to the opposite end of the line, (to the end that hooks on to the fuel pump). After a few pumps, I was able to get fuel to come through the hand pump. Next, I reconnected that fuel line to the pump, and then I connected my hand pump to the carb main fuel line, to ensure I was getting fuel through the pump. My thought was that perhaps it just needed a little bit of priming, since it had not been started in several months. I was able to get fuel up through the line, so I reconnected the line to the carb, and the engine fired right up, (now the pressure gauge was reading between 6-7 PSI), and the engine ran great on muffs for the entirety of my 30 minute test.

About a week later, I decided to take the boat out to a lake on a local military base for testing purposes. For the first hour or so, the boat did awesome; 40 MPH indicated at 4,800 RPM at WOT. I was happy, my kids were happy, life was looking good! Then..... My boat died! Again! I instantly suspected the fuel pump or fuel line again, since the same sort of thing happened in Destin last September, and also because of the symptoms from when I tried starting it after replacing the carb. I opened the engine compartment and removed the flame arrestor. The carb was bone dry, with no smell of fuel. I didn't have any specialty tools with me on the lake at the time, such as a fuel pressure gauge, so I disconnected the fuel line at the carb, and I had one of my kid's spin the engine over. Guess what? No fuel! So, I did the only thing I knew to do; I sucked on the fuel line. After a few short attempts, I had fuel to the end of the line. I reinstalled the line to the carb, and the engine fired right up. Then, I spent about another good hour on the water at WOT. The engine ran flawless. But as we started coming back to the boat launch area, the engine died again! I tried several times to restart the engine, but it was getting dark, and luckily, we were within glide distance of the boat launch, and a nice guy also tossed us a line, so that my two kids didn't have to paddle very far at all :)

I'm thinking:

1.) Replace anti-siphon valve? If no change, then:
2.) Replace fuel pump.

Please correct me if my train of thought is wrong here. Any and all comments are appreciated in advance! Also, my apologies for the long dictation!
 

andrewterri

Chief Petty Officer
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Jun 25, 2014
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I am by far not an expert and ask many questions myself but it sounds like your thinking is right. I am scratching my head too. Those are the only things I can think of. You can get a empty water bottle, disconnect the fuel line at the carb, hook up bypass switch and turn engine over to see how much fuel your pump is putting out. However, if your running for any period of time before the engine dies you would think it is fine. I would lean towards your anti-siphon valve. You must be building up vacuum in the tank after running which is over powering your fuel pumps ability to pump fuel. Just an amateurs thoughts, I am sure the experts will weigh in tomorrow.
 

Jimmyjamm

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May 25, 2017
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Andrewterri,

Thanks for the reply! I failed to mention previously that I did that twice during the test run on the lake also. I held an empty water bottle under the fuel line where it disconnects from the carb and had my kid spin the engine over. No fuel at all. Once I was able to get fuel back up through the lines to the carb, I held a water bottle under the fuel line fitting again while my kid spun the engine over a few turns. Plenty of fuel was coming through after I had siphoned it up through the line, and the boat cranked right up.

You make a good point about the fuel pump potentially being overpowered by a vacuum building up in the tank over time. I suppose if the anti-siphon valve is malfunctioning, then a vacuum buildup situation could be the culprit. I suppose prior to ordering a new fuel pump, (which may not even be the problem), I could swap out the fuel line that contains the anti-siphon valve with a temporary fuel line, (without an anti-siphon valve), and then go run it for a while on the lake, to see if the problem still exists. I appreciate your feedback!
 

211libwtfo

Petty Officer 1st Class
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346
I tried to read most but did you try putting a 5 gallon gas tank in your boat and refeeding the carb out of that tank. It would help isolate your problem. But I'm gonna put dollars to doughnuts on that damn anti siphon valve.
 

Jimmyjamm

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May 25, 2017
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211libwtfo,

Thank you for your feedback. I have not yet attempted to use an external tank. I've thought about trying that after I have tried running the engine with a different fuel line, (without an inline anti-siphon valve). Considering all of the money already spent, I'll try the fuel line first. If no change is evident, I'll go purchase an external marine fuel tank. If still no change, looks like I'll splurge on a new fuel pump. I figured I would try the cheapest option first. I really appreciate your feedback and ideas!
 

Maclin

Admiral
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May 27, 2007
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6,761
Welcome Aboard!

Pop the fuel fill cap off, listen for a hiss next time to vent it. If it hisses mightily then you have probably isolated the problem to tank venting. To keep going on the same day, if that helped, leave the cap loose if possible, or remember to uncap and recap every so often until you can fix the tank non-venting issue.

Good luck :)
 

Jimmyjamm

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Maclin,

Thank you for the suggestions. On my onboard fuel tank, there are only two lines I see running into the fuel tank; One of the lines is the big fuel line that runs into the top of the tank from the gas filler port. The second fuel line is the one containing the anti-siphon valve, which runs to the fuel pump. Regarding a venting tube, is there a separate vent line that I should be troubleshooting? If so, where would I find it? Is there a certain spot on the outside of the hull where the vent tube would terminate and be visible?

Again, thanks to everyone for your great feedback!
 

Maclin

Admiral
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May 27, 2007
Messages
6,761
Should be a vent line along the big filler tube. Or it may be built into the fuel fill itself and the cap is vented. I just noticed you have a 2007 model boat, some "advances" made it into the boating world.

Either way, pop the cap and listen.
 

Jimmyjamm

Cadet
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May 25, 2017
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Okay, after investigating further, I was able to find two additional fuel lines, (probably 1" in diameter), that are mounted to the top of my fuel tank. Both lines run from the top of the fuel tank to the fuel filler nozzle area, on the aft port side of the boat. One of the lines is obviously for venting while refueling, (due to it terminating in close proximity to the main refuel hose/nozzle). The second line I mentioned has to be the tank vent, as one end of that line, (also about a 1" hose), runs from an inaccessible portion on the top of my fuel tank, (covered by the fiberglass hull), to the small plastic exterior vent, which is mounted just slightly aft of the main fuel filler port/nozzle. If you follow the line coming out of the top of the tank, the other end is mounted to a small plastic vent tube fitting that terminates on the exterior aft port side, just aft of the main fuel cap. While viewing that vent tube fitting from the aft port exterior of the boat, the line is attached to a small, plastic silver piece, which has a small slit in it, allowing you to look inside the fitting, where a screen covers the small opening for tank venting. For the first line I mentioned, I was able to take that line out entirely and clean it thoroughly, then reinstall it, (there was no blockage in that line). For the second line I mentioned, since only one end of the line was accessible, I disconnected the exterior end and used my air hose to blow air into the line and into the tank. There didn't seem to be a blockage there either.
After doing what I could with the two vent lines, I went ahead and removed the main fuel pump supply line from the fuel pump and tank, I cut the hose to remove the sticky anti-siphon valve out. Again, the spring loaded silver ball valve did not appear to be dirty, just sticky every now and then when I attempted to push it in and out with a small screwdriver. Next, I installed a brass 1/4 threaded barbed fitting (by 3/8 hose size), that I picked up at an automotive parts store, and I reinstalled the fuel line. I put the muffs on, and the engine fired right up! However, it seemed to sputter and die out a couple times like you were trying to crank a car on a cold, cold morning. But she cranked up and idled fine after about three attempts. I ran the engine for nearly an hour without fail. I plan to take it back to the lake again today to give it another try.
I have a couple of follow-on questions:
1.) I'm not real up to speed on how the exhaust system works. On the aft, exterior (Transom area), of the boat where the gimbal housing mounts, while running the engine on muffs, I can clearly see where the heated engine water exits the Starboard nozzle. On the Port side nozzle, there appears to be mostly exhaust gas coming out. But there is also a small amount of hot water spray coming from the Port exhaust nozzle also. I just want to know if it is normal for any amount of water to be coming out of the Port side nozzle as well? Again, I'm not at all familiar with this type of exhaust system, so I'm hoping to get educated by you guys until I can get my hands on a manual.
2.) I recall reading in one of the forums about the USCG regulations, where it said something to the effect of "you don't need an anti-siphon valve if your fuel tank is the lowest point in the fuel system." Since my fuel tank is in fact the lowest point in my fuel system, I'm just wondering if I even need to reinstall a new anti-siphon valve? Can anyone verify this as factual? What are your thoughts about it?
I'll update after I test run today on the lake. Again, thanks to everyone for your time, expertise, ideas and advice! It's truly appreciated!
 

Jimmyjamm

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May 25, 2017
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Took the boat back to the lake today. It ran like a champ for the first hour or so. After turning the engine off, she failed to start back. It was a repeat of the previous events; as if the fuel pump wasn't pumping enough fuel. Finally she started after several attempts, but if I tried to push the throttle past 3,000 RPM, the engine just kept bogging down. I decided to install an inline fuel filter between the fuel tank and the suction side of the fuel pump so that I could visually see if the fuel pump was malfunctioning. After installing the filter, I had one of the kids turn the engine over, and the filter was full of fuel. But the engine still did not start. It seems that once the engine is running when I first start out on the lake, the boat runs like a champ. However, after an hour or so when I bring the throttle back, I start having these issues again. Something I failed to mention previously is that when I rebuilt the carb, I did not change the float out. I had planned to change it when I rebuilt it, but to my dismay, the rebuild kit did not come with a new float. Everything else was changed out though, and I took extra special care to ensure that both of my float adjustment measurements were right on the mark. After today, I'm leaning towards the float having a hole in it or something, because as I mentioned, for the first hour or so on the water, the engine runs just fine. Then over time, it seems to be flooding out or something. I'm just not sure at this point. It still could be a fuel pump issue. So I suppose I'll order a new fuel pump today, along with a new float for the carb. Any suggestions or ideas are appreciated.
 

andrewterri

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437
If it is a neoprene style float then they tend to hold fuel over time. You can get a brass fuel pump that will not have that problem. Might save you some headache in the future. Did you try checking the gas tank? As for your question about the exhaust, my boat does the same thing. warm water out of the starboard side and mostly gases out of the port side. I do not know anything about the USCG regulations
 

Jimmyjamm

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May 25, 2017
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Andrewterri,

Thanks for the information, and yes, I checked the tank as well as I could; When the engine died after running it for nearly an hour on the lake, the first thing I did was pull the gas cap to check for any hissing, pressure build-up, etc., but there wasn't any. Also, removing the anti siphon valve from the fuel line didn't seem to have any effect on the issue either. I ordered a new Sierra fuel pump last night (I believe it's brass?), as well as a new float. I'll try the fuel pump replacement first, as I'm really not looking forward to pulling the carb and tearing it back apart if I don't have to.

I'll post an update in a couple days after I get the new fuel pump in the mail, get it installed and then tested. Thanks again to everyone for your input!
 

Jimmyjamm

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May 25, 2017
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Andrewterri,

I was just reading back through everyone's comments, and I had a question about something you mentioned earlier. You said: "You can get a brass fuel pump that will not have that problem. Might save you some headache in the future."

I'm a little slow on the uptake sometimes, but were you meaning to say that I should get a brass float instead of another neoprene one? You said "brass fuel pump," but I assume you were referring to the float, correct? Thanks, just trying to clarify.

Also, I've been doing a lot of research in the interim. I also failed to mention that my carb is one of the Turn Key Start, (TKS) type. From what I've read, there are at least three different carb manufacturers for the MerCruiser 3.0L engine, each slightly different in terms of the internal design and function, which explains why the carb kit I used came with three different types of slightly different gaskets, as well as two different accelerator pumps. My engine already has the TKS type carb, but I see that MerCruiser sells a "TKS carb retrofit kit," for those whom I'm guessing have one of the other style carbs and wish to change to a TKS one. The only reason I mention this at all is because it looks like the retrofit kit comes with its own style of thermostat housing assembly. I've kept a keen eye on my oil pressure and water temperature throughout this whole ordeal; oil pressure hangs out in the 40 PSI indicated range, while the water temp has indicated 160-170 F consistently. But is it possible that my issue isn't fuel related at all, and that a faulty pressure or temperature sensor could be the culprit, causing my engine to stop?

My new fuel pump and float should arrive tomorrow. I'll update once I have anything to report back. Thanks again for bearing through the long dissertation!
 

andrewterri

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Yes jimmyjamm, I meant to say brass float not fuel pump. Sorry about that. I have seen very kits that have gaskets that would fit when there were changes made in production and some kit cover several different carbs. My carb used two different style accelerator pumps during production so most kits include both, one for a straight shaft and the other has a 90 degree bend at the top. Your boat is new than what I am familiar with. so I do not know if faulty pressure or temp senor would cause this. if I had to guess I would say no, because you have been running for so long with the same oil pressure and temp without any sudden changes prior to shut down. I have a 140 or 150 degree thermostat in my boat and I know several people choose to run the same as the motor would have more time to react to a overheating issue.
 

Jimmyjamm

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May 25, 2017
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Andrewterri,

Thanks for the reply! Yes, there was a little bit of confusion until I found some of the "Mike's Carbs" videos on youtube, because the carb kit I purchased came with two different types of accelerator pumps also, as you mentioned. There was also some confusion regarding a second check ball (an aluminum one), that came with my kit. After referencing Mike's Carbs videos, it seems that some of the carb models have that second check ball, along with a small screen and a retainer clip, that go into the accelerator pump chamber, underneath the accelerator pump. My TKS carb did not have the second check ball, the screen, or the metal retaining clip when I tore it apart. So I emailed the "Mike's Carbs" guy to confirm, and he told me that some carbs have them, some don't. So, I assume the rebuild kit I bought includes the second check ball, just in case your particular Carb has the second one installed. Anyways, as for acceleration, I haven't had any issues there, except for when my boat starts to run out of fuel after about the first hour or so.

Have you or anyone else had impeller issues in the past? Again, I assume that if this were related to an impeller issue, then I would be getting a high temp reading or the high temp alarm would sound; neither of which have happened. But my latest pondering is this: What if while I'm at WOT, the water flow is sufficient for cooling the engine. But when I roll the throttle back, could a damaged impeller, (or something similar), cause a water flow blockage at lower RPM that would cause the engine to stall or shut down as a protective measure? I would assume if this was the case, then my temperature gauge would show a rise, or I would get an audible alert via the high temp alarm, correct? Again, I'm learning as I go when it comes to the out drive portion of this setup. Anyways, just a thought that crossed my mind when trying to troubleshoot all potential causes. From what I've read, I know that it's widely accepted as standard practice to replace the impeller every one to two seasons. I have had the boat for three years, and I have never changed it. However, it has only been in the water 6 or 7 times, probably less than 10 hours or so. But just for good measure, it can't hurt to tear my Alpha One Gen 2 down and replace the impeller.

I'm interested in any feedback you guys may have concerning my many different theories! Here are my remaining ideas again:

1.) Fuel Pump ruptured diaphragm?
2.) Fuel tank venting issue, (haven't found a blockage so far). I'm replacing the main fuel pick-up tube and anti-siphon valve when I replace the fuel pump later today. Also, I'm going to try an external tank just to be sure.
3.) Carburetor issue, perhaps the float has a hole in it?
4.) Impeller or water blockage issue?

What are your guy's thoughts? Thanks in advance!
 

Dejavu48

Recruit
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
2
Hi Jim, I'm new to this forum. Did you get you problem solved. I've had the same issue for the past two months.

Thanks
 

Grub54891

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Just change the pump, and syphon valve, kill 2 birds with one stone. if the float has sunk, it would remain sunk, they don't re-float themselves. Look in the carb when it's idling, you should see a mist of fuel at the Venturey, if you see drips, yeah the float is either set wrong, or sinking.
 
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