Merc 50hp hard starting.

woywoyboy

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Jun 2, 2001
Messages
104
My 50hp '84 Merc wil. only start after pumping the fuel bulb to the point where petrol is pouring out of the carbies. Once started she goes like the clappers but just needs that initial wallop of fuel. This is when both cold and hot. I use unleaded petrol.
 

12Footer

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8,217
Re: Merc 50hp hard starting.

Your carbs should not expell fuel at all, and the primer when pumped, should firm-up,and not take any more fuel, once primed. If it is expelling gas out of the overflow, <br /><br />(A)the carb has a sticking float valve needle,<br /><br />(B) or the float level adjustment is set too high (doubtfull,unless you have changed it),<br /><br />(C) or the float has actually sunk, (also rare,but does happen).<br />"A" is the most common cause of this, as the sticky stuff is varnish. Varnish tends to form in the bowl first. For some reason,2cycle fuel turns into varnish faster than gas by itself. But it takes less than 4 weeks,in hot weather.<br />Sometimes, you can tap gently on the bowl of the carb,while someone else pumps the primer.<br />You'll know you got it when the bowl quits spewing fuel,and the primer bulb primes and holds.<br /> But I would get a carb kit and remove the carb and clean it. Don't use the soaking kind unless you intend to strip the carbs down to bare metal, as the imersion type cleaners eat everything that isn't metal.<br />Good Luck.<br /><br />
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<br /><br />These Colors Don't Run!!
 

petryshyn

Commander
Joined
Oct 3, 2001
Messages
2,851
Re: Merc 50hp hard starting.

Hey, are you anywhere near 'Survivor"!!!<br />Ditto 12footer!!<br />If you're squeezing the ball with a reasonable force, 12footer nailed the issue.<br />- just how hard are you squeezing your ball?(a good outbacker can squeeze hard enough to defeat the float system)...LoL<br />IF it idles fine, it should start fine hot.(same circuit in carb) Choke obviously working but not helping, right? It shouldn't be required when engine warm anyway.(just thinking aloud)<br />- idles and pulls OK?<br />- hows compression?<br />- reeds not laying down?<br />- leaking crank seals > lean at low rpm?<br />- we gotta know just how hard are you squeezing your ball? That'll determine if the float circuit is bad, or you're just compensating for a low speed lean condition by squeezing fricken hard....<br /><br /> :confused:
 

woywoyboy

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Jun 2, 2001
Messages
104
Re: Merc 50hp hard starting.

Hangabout Schematic, I'll just pop out the back and have a sticky at 12Footer's ideas.
 

woywoyboy

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Jun 2, 2001
Messages
104
Re: Merc 50hp hard starting.

I have used some carb cleaner from a can as I cannot get carb kits until Monday when the dealer reopens. This has not had a noticable effect. I do give the bulb a whopping big sqeeze. Once started she has is perfectly mannered, idles beaut, will troll all day and accelerates like a kookaburra after a blacksnake. Compression is between 110-115 in all 4 cylinders.
 

petryshyn

Commander
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Oct 3, 2001
Messages
2,851
Re: Merc 50hp hard starting.

Don't be given her a big squeeze...more to come....
 

petryshyn

Commander
Joined
Oct 3, 2001
Messages
2,851
Re: Merc 50hp hard starting.

again, don't squeeze too hard as you'll rupture the fuel pump diaphram!!!! Spraying carb cleaner on outside will only make her pretty...won't help run......hang on a sec.....
 

petryshyn

Commander
Joined
Oct 3, 2001
Messages
2,851
Re: Merc 50hp hard starting.

if there is fuel coming out of the carby with a gentle squeeze, do 12footer's recommendations(carb overhaul).<br />- If fuel is pouring out, we're done.(you've got to disassemble and overhaul them) <br /><br />-is the choke closing fully when you go to start?<br />-take some wd-40 and spray into each carb while trying to start. does it start right up?<br />-if it does it means she's lean. if she's lean from a carb problem, she shouldn't idle.<br />-try backing the idle screws out 3/4 turn each. does it start easier?<br />- leaking crank seals and reeds are hard to diagnose when they are just getting bad. we'll use a process of elimination and do the easy obvious stuff first.<br />- I'll be here for 30 minutes more or so.<br />what time is it there, how far are you from where 'survivor was, and how cold is it there? and don't call me Sheila!!!...LoL
 

woywoyboy

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Messages
104
Re: Merc 50hp hard starting.

Thanks Schematic, Survivor was just around the corner. I am in a reigonal area called Kiama. http://www.fishkiama.com/ <br />Just give me a minute, the Cox Plate is about to start (that is our best horse race of the year. If the horse I am on wins I'll just buy a new flamin' motor. Them Survivor lot were a bunch of pansies.
 

woywoyboy

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Jun 2, 2001
Messages
104
Re: Merc 50hp hard starting.

It's about 30deg C here, very warm and 1530 hrs. Jockey was a purse carrying nancy. Wouldn't sit near the pace. Have to fix this motor I now. I'll now go and try your ideas Schematic. Probably time for a consoling beer.
 

woywoyboy

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Messages
104
Re: Merc 50hp hard starting.

Finally got the carb kits. Had to be imported according the Grumble Bum - mmm, perhaps he just forgot to order them. Anyhow, all reassembled and prob seems to be overcome apart from running a little smokey now. I have adjusted the carbs as per book - idle screw out 1 1/2 turns, start and warm motor, then back out till almost stalls. back in till gains max revs then backout 1 1/2 turns. Now to tackle the tilt/trim. Can I use std SAV20 oil or is it "special" marine grade ?
 

12Footer

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Mar 25, 2001
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8,217
Re: Merc 50hp hard starting.

Woywoy, I have no idea what AV20 oil is.I take it, that oils are rated differently there. You want to use what we call in the states "TW-C3" 2cycle oil. mixed 50:1.<br />It does sound like you have her running rich. When you run the mixture screw out until it begins to run rough, turn it very slowly back in,until it again,runs a bit rough on the lean side. Then,bck it off until it is just running running smooth again...Then 1/8 turn more.The 1/8 turn is for insurance (best to be a bit rich then a bit lean)..<br />Sounds like you're about ready to go fishing.
 

woywoyboy

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Messages
104
Re: Merc 50hp hard starting.

Tx 12 Footer. Refering to SAV20 oil, I mean hydraulic stuff for the tilt/trim. Can I use any old stuff or does it have to be Merc from Carnky Pants (local Merc dealer) We also call our 2 stroke oils TCW and refer to mineral oils by thier viscosity rating as you would. We also have a prime minister whom once held the world record for scolling beer. Now that is an acheivment to tell the worls about.
 

12Footer

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Mar 25, 2001
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8,217
Re: Merc 50hp hard starting.

The book calls for "SAE10w-30.or 10W-40 autmotive oil API service SE".. It states that you can also use "SAE 30W oil in the tropics".<br />NOW I see why you call him "Mr Cranky Pants" LOL.<br />But before using standard multi-vis oil, you should completely drain and bleed the unit,so you are not mixing different types of oils together.<br />Yes Sir..That's my kinda Prime Minitser!!
 

woywoyboy

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Jun 2, 2001
Messages
104
Re: Merc 50hp hard starting.

Tx 12Footer, will drain it first before refilling. Does the Pres enjoy a few beers after a fishing trip ? I am sitting here at and a 1 metre swell and I am dying to get out of the place for a fish but the boss is next door. As soon as he isn't looking I'm off. After all it is P.O.E.T's day ! (pee off early, tomorrow's Saturday.)
 

12Footer

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Re: Merc 50hp hard starting.

I llke that (P.O.E.T.S day) LOL.<br />Pres.Bush has a problem with drinkin,so he no longer endulges. But he does fish,with his dad and brother when he can (which is about once every 3 or 4 years).When they do,they like Boca Grande Pass for the Tarpon,which is 30miles north of where I live (on the west coast of Florida). A very dedicated and busy man..We are blessed to have him there.
 

woywoyboy

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jun 2, 2001
Messages
104
Re: Merc 50hp hard starting.

8.00pm last night I get a phone call from the boss at home. "Where have you been all afternoon ? I couldn't raise you on your cellphone." (they don't work 5 miles offshore - we use VHF or 27meg sets.)"Umm, the flamin' phone carked it"(this comment made after several schooners and the catch cleaned and filleted). "Right, there will be a new phone here for you on Monday morning. Make sure you collect it." This bloke isn't a drongo so I reckon he knew where I had been. Hope I don't get the sack on Monday ! Anyhow, tilt/trim much smoother after replacing hydraulic oil and bleeding.
 
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