merc. 400 EL 45hp 1960speed control adjustment

kelwendee

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jul 29, 2004
Messages
38
Re: merc. 400 EL 45hp 1960speed control adjustment

thanks marty, not gonna give up, thats for sure I know its close. Im useing those Champion J-6J as mentioned in the old outboard manuel.and the ones I took out are NGK BUHW. the NGK have that flat style electrode while the champion have the regular style. I figured the champs were better to fiddle with, harder to load up and foul.changing, seemed too load up easer on the flat ones so I stayed pretty much with the champs. <br />on the mag advance setting if you were to give too much advance that detention you refer too, is that what I haved heard can actually burn a hole in the top of pistons or is that on turbos only?<br /><br />the bowls looked good. however, I do remember one looking a little scuffed on one side so ill check that real good. and the spring height looked good but im still gonna double check and will give them float walls a better look too for sure. I did put the new needle and seat and have gone back and doubled checked them.<br />I did see the little pointer on the mag pully and pretty sure it was correctly lined on the TDC even pulled # 1 plug to make sure it was up, I thought about moving that belt a tooth both direction on the lake to be sure, But thought That was a bit extrem on the lake.and it seems right.<br />The lake is Lewiston lake and the water comes out from near the bottom of Trinity lake. real small impoundment and very cold fast water. Excellent trout fisheries we seen lots of 8 to 10 lb trout. <br /><br />so basicly if the timing were to be out (the timing marks, advance flywheel timing marks and the advance timing screw adjustment) it should not have ran better as I throttle up or in the higher rpms from half throttle up? so sounds more like carb related. at times no mis from half on up.<br /> after trying the advance timing setting. <br />I turned the actuator plate both ways and the throttle cluster I reached in and turned it and the mag at diffrent rpms but still couldent even her out could stall it out but not even out.<br /><br />oh I just thought of something I had forgot to mention. launching the boat, I started her up and let her idel, shifted into gear she stalled, fired her up again thinking the low idel adjustments and going back and forth with them and the low idel screw. all of a sudden I noticed my clear class fuel filter was pretty empty. and it runs about half full or better the motor was craping out so I gave the pumper another pump or two, filled er up and smoother idel. watched her idel and the fuel would slowley drop to bottom of glass and start too cut out, another pump or two and right back up again. I fiddled with pumper and line, some air bubbles started passing in the glass. tightend the lines, shook the pumper finaly fuel seemed to stabilize in the bowl. vent was open cracked lid just to be sure. I know it vents well. you can hear it when you crack it, expell or retract air. <br />I havent found a dial indactor yet but that and the bowl will be next. I think ill blow those carbs out again too. <br />keep you posted, Ben
 

kelwendee

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jul 29, 2004
Messages
38
Re: merc. 400 EL 45hp 1960speed control adjustment

thanks marty, not gonna give up, thats for sure I know its close. Im useing those Champion J-6J as mentioned in the old outboard manuel.and the ones I took out are NGK BUHW. the NGK have that flat style electrode while the champion have the regular style. I figured the champs were better to fiddle with, harder to load up and foul.changing, seemed too load up easer on the flat ones so I stayed pretty much with the champs. <br />on the mag advance setting if you were to give too much advance that detention you refer too, is that what I haved heard can actually burn a hole in the top of pistons or is that on turbos only?<br /><br />the bowls looked good. however, I do remember one looking a little scuffed on one side so ill check that real good. and the spring height looked good but im still gonna double check and will give them float walls a better look too for sure. I did put the new needle and seat and have gone back and doubled checked them.<br />I did see the little pointer on the mag pully and pretty sure it was correctly lined on the TDC even pulled # 1 plug to make sure it was up, I thought about moving that belt a tooth both direction on the lake to be sure, But thought That was a bit extrem on the lake.and it seems right.<br />The lake is Lewiston lake and the water comes out from near the bottom of Trinity lake. real small impoundment and very cold fast water. Excellent trout fisheries we seen lots of 8 to 10 lb trout. <br /><br />so basicly if the timing were to be out (the timing marks, advance flywheel timing marks and the advance timing screw adjustment) it should not have ran better as I throttle up or in the higher rpms from half throttle up? so sounds more like carb related. at times no mis from half on up.<br /> after trying the advance timing setting. <br />I turned the actuator plate both ways and the throttle cluster I reached in and turned it and the mag at diffrent rpms but still couldent even her out could stall it out but not even out.<br /><br />oh I just thought of something I had forgot to mention. launching the boat, I started her up and let her idel, shifted into gear she stalled, fired her up again thinking the low idel adjustments and going back and forth with them and the low idel screw. all of a sudden I noticed my clear class fuel filter was pretty empty. and it runs about half full or better the motor was craping out so I gave the pumper another pump or two, filled er up and smoother idel. watched her idel and the fuel would slowley drop to bottom of glass and start too cut out, another pump or two and right back up again. I fiddled with pumper and line, some air bubbles started passing in the glass. tightend the lines, shook the pumper finaly fuel seemed to stabilize in the bowl. vent was open cracked lid just to be sure. I know it vents well. you can hear it when you crack it, expell or retract air. <br />I havent found a dial indactor yet but that and the bowl will be next.ill blow those carbs out again too. Ill check out that site and <br />keep you posted, Ben
 

MartyTn

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Nov 3, 2002
Messages
108
Re: merc. 400 EL 45hp 1960speed control adjustment

I think you said you rebuilt the fuel pump, but if you didn't that's a must and making sure no air enters the fuel lines is very key. If the bulb won't stay pumped you're losing your fuel flow. Sometimes, if air is getting in, fuel is getting out, so fix all leaks and be sure all connectors are tight and the ball stays pumped up before doing anymore with the carbs, etc. If all else looks right but the bulb wont stay pumped, try another bulb, as the check valves can go bad.<br /><br />When you mentioned NGK BUHW, that is a plug for the later electronic ignitions. If you want to use NGK instead of the Champions, NGK recommends the B6S plug for that motor.<br /><br />I've never personally used NGK's with these motors but I love them in my later Merc500 with electronic ignition, so I've ordered some B6S plugs to see if they tend to be more or less tolerant to fouling.
 

Clams Canino

Commander
Joined
Jan 10, 2004
Messages
2,179
Re: merc. 400 EL 45hp 1960speed control adjustment

Just a quick comment. The motor didn't change, the OILS did. 50/1 is fine with todays TCW-3 oils. The same "Super Thunderbolt" motor that required 25/1 in 1960 sold in 1990 requiring 50/1.<br /><br />Use a good quality ashless oil (Pennzoil Synthetic Blend is great at $9 a gallon) mixed at anywhere from 1 quart to 10-12 gallons and you have PLENTY of oil.<br /><br />If you havn't seen the rings lately, use Mercury Power Tune as directed on can to make sure they stay free. Those old oils at 25/1 were a sure way to get coked up and stuck rings.<br /><br />-W
 

MartyTn

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Nov 3, 2002
Messages
108
Re: merc. 400 EL 45hp 1960speed control adjustment

Thanks Clams, I totally agree on the Super Thunderbolt 44ci motor being the same. I also have a 1970 version of the 44ci (Merc500) that I run at 50:1. <br /><br />Also, a habit I got into a couple of years ago is to always run Merc Quick-Clean. I also have one of the 2+2 4-cyl 100hp motors that was giving fits with lean spit-backs and the Merc folks said to run Quick-clean all the time and that double strength was okay. So that's what I've done ever since with all my Mercs. Do you agree with this?<br /><br />For oil I've been using the standard "gray bottle" Quicksilver 2-cycle oil for both motors. Please tell me about the Pennzoil Synthetic Blend. Any way I can further protect these old motors is most welcomed. Many Thanks
 

kelwendee

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jul 29, 2004
Messages
38
Re: merc. 400 EL 45hp 1960speed control adjustment

thanks Marty and Clams,<br />so I havent found the dial indactor yet, but been busy with other projects.<br /> I did get the fuel pump kit and opened the pump up. it looked so clean that I dident bother to <br />replace the reeds. I am going to do that now, this time I strip her down. <br />the pump and lines are old, but prior to last weekend I had not had any problems. To be sure Im gonna replace them. cheap any how, not changing them dosent seem to smart. Im pretty sure it's not my orignal problem. <br />the NGK's were in the engine when I bought it. Ill pick up some B6S's. just curious do they have a regular electrode or flat bottom?<br />Ill try running that power tune also after I get her going again.<br /><br />have you fellas tried OPTI-2 with fuel stabilizer for the 2 cycle mix. I was a timber feller and the saw dealer just raved about it. it burns real clean. and Stihl says its covered under there warranty.I ran 4 diffrent saws and never blew one up. which is common falling. not saying I wouldent have had that same luck with any other brand 2 cycle oils.
 

MartyTn

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Nov 3, 2002
Messages
108
Re: merc. 400 EL 45hp 1960speed control adjustment

Hi Ben, When I pressed my motor into service after it sat outside unused for 12 years, I too skipped changing the fuel lines since they didn't leak in the tank. They were fine for 2 trips but then the vibration opened them up and air in/fuel out, etc. Be sure to use that new fuel pump diaphram also.<br /><br />After the discussions about the NGK's, I installed NGK B6S's into my Mk58A this past weekend and they sure do seem strong. The B6S has a traditional type electrode. I also thinned out my gas/oil ratio on Clams' advice. It's running great. <br /><br />I've never tried OPTI-2, but with Stihl's approval it must be great, and I really wonder if many of these "cleaner" products have a lot in common.
 
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