Maximum Hypocrisy!

[Boomyal]

Effective Thursday, Levi Strauss a $4+B company is moving it's manufacturing off shore. For those of you that are not aware Levi Srauss has been one of America's largest corporate left wing sympathizers. <br /><br />This is a move that the left wing abhores. They think that companies should tough it out to protect the 'workers', that someone or thing should miraculously intervene to keep the doors open. But when the going got tough Levi put it's unrealistic ideolgy aside and opted for survival. So much for putting your money where your outlandish left wing mouth is.<br /><br />Now some here, without mentioning any names, will most likely jump in here and blame it all on George Bush and the Evil Right Wing Greedy Conservatives who have no compunction against going offshore to take advantage of slave labor wages.<br /><br />The fact of the matter is that Levi had become a high cost producer in the Global Economy and had to move to survive. The Liberals do support the whole Global program don't they?<br /><br />Well I just couldn't pass up this opportunity to show, once again, that the Left wing agenda is made up of ideologies that are suitable for the masses but not themselves.

 

[pjc]

Re: Maximum Hypocrisy!

problem with the moving of jobs off shore has nothing to do with the companies.<br /><br />Has ALL to do with the consumers. If all the proud American consumers by foreign stuff due to pricing--thats what all get-foreign manufactured consumer goods.<br /><br />Far as I'm concerned we did it to ourselves. Some figured, well, I can buy 3 foreign towels instead of one American manufactured towel, what the heck, I will. More towels, same cost. So what.<br /><br />That was then, this is now. For a decade or better blue color workers were boitching about loss of manufacturing. No one gave a arts sas. <br /><br />Now that more and more professionals are loosing jobs due to the magnitude of manufacturing base loss--IE--their jobs--lottsa folks paying attention.<br /><br />Bottom line imo is that all can complain and point political fingers all they want. We the consumer drove manufacturing to where it is today. <br /><br />Not the Unions--be mindful that physicians and lawyers are organized under the AMA and State Bars, etc. Whole bunch of professional organizations as well as lobby groups out there that operate an a fashion similar to what we consider traditional organized labor. Not business. <br /><br />We, the consumer. And I have listened to all the crapolla regarding inferior domestic product, competition--blablabla. That may apply in some situations. But.<br /><br />In closing, we the consumer bought this bunk, we are now sleeping in it.

 

[Elmer Fudge]

Re: Maximum Hypocrisy!

It don't matter from which angle you look at this,<br />Greed is greed,whether it's corporate greed or it's consumer greed.<br />It seems that most of the peoples of the better developed countries are becoming this way as our traditional values gets more diluted.

 

[plywoody]

Re: Maximum Hypocrisy!

What are you talking about?<br /><br />This is not a liberal vs conservative issue. There are at least as many protecctionists on the Republican side, if not more.<br /><br />We are in a global economic society, like it or not, and for the record, it was Clinton that championed NAFTA, along with some republican and some democratic support.<br /><br />It is this current administration that imposed tariffs on steel and lumber, among other things, and whom Greenspan recently chastized as the most protectionist administration in the last half century.<br /><br />It is good economic policy to promote global trade for America--While there are losses in manufacturing jobs, no doubt, there are job gains elsewhere--transportation, distribution, etc--it takes more to move and market those three towells than the one you could buy American made--<br /><br />Plus, world wide economic development is a great thing, as it opens markets for other American products, like Airplanes, and production machinery, and pollution machinery, and a whole host of other things.<br /><br />On top of that, it economic development promotes international stability, and it is the best possible way to attain "world peace". Once someone has something to lose, they are less willing to put it at risk.<br /><br />I have no idea about Levi's decision, or their political leanings, but offshore manufacturing is a good thing from an economic standpoint, and it is clearly not a liberal vs conservative issue. It is an issue of those that understand economic theory vs those that don't. There are plenty of people on both sides of the aisle that want to return to protectionism, including the current administration, and plenty on both sides that don't, including the Clinton administration who did understand economics .<br /><br />Surely there will be some problems with the transition to a global economy that won't be solved overnight--there is no doubt about that, but on balance it is better to participate than not, while problems are worked on over time.

 

[crab bait]

Re: Maximum Hypocrisy!

i agree with PAT.. like walmart..they come into small rural areas set up shop an suck the area dry.. <br /><br />so what..<br /><br />walmart supports sweatshop importers in a major way.. ( always low prices )..an then puts american flag signs on that says 'made in america'.. an treats there own employees as such to.. <br /><br />so what..<br /><br />but the people in these communities that are now crumbling ghost towns that are that way because of walmart ,, still take their umemployment/welfare checks there an shop .. cause the prices are slow low an can buy 3 towels for the price of one...<br /><br />so what... i still got 3 towels for the price of one...

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Maximum Hypocrisy!

hello<br /> dudes<br /> I agree with plywoody<br /> lets send all the technical manufacturing jobs to china and mexico and all the financial and engineering jobs to india. then I can get a minimum wage gob driving a bus or delivery truck.<br /> my why did our founding fathers not think of this?I cant belive I have been so selfish all my life. lets just all drive buss's or pick fruits and let someone else make our products and engineer or products and finance our meager existance.<br /> wow I cant belive I never thought of this.<br /> well I guess I will go to work to support some poor mexican making merc and bombardier stuff in mexico.<br /> yall have a nyce day now ya heah

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: Maximum Hypocrisy!

Lets face it. America does have lots of jobs that need labor to get the job done. However some of these jobs will not pay enough to support a family. If people cannot support their family, they must work at a job they can. Now this is preventing a company to be competetive in the market if they have to pay higher labor rates to get employees and to keep americans working. So to keep comptetive and keep their business going, they have to go where the labor is plentiful and cheap.<br /><br />I agree with plywoody on this one. The success of a company is not dependant on the government politics. Good business is just good business. <br /><br />NAFTA destroyed lots of textile jobs around here. There were lots of women who sewed the product in shops and their homes. They didn't make much, but it was money. After NAFTA, he couldn't afford to keep the women in jobs, so he just closed his operation.<br /><br />My personnal opinion is that some professional services are priced too high. Doctors and attorneys services make so much that when a low income family needs their service to survive, that family is sucked dry of their money just for one incident. It is hard enough on the lower income bracket to survive. They get zapped by higher intrest rates which even drains their resources more.<br /><br />When I do side work for maintenance, I tend to always give the break to the little guy. And I have been known to fix things for people at no charge when I know they don't have the money.<br /><br />I don't blame companies for moving if they cannot get workers to work at their wage.

 

[bomar76]

Re: Maximum Hypocrisy!

Glad to see them go!<br />The sooner they file chapter 11 the better!<br />We have not purchased ANYTHING from Levis for quite some time.<br />They have been and continue to be a very large financial supporter of anti gun causes.<br />I have writted the CEO on this issue to express my concern and received a "sorry about your luck, if you don't like our policy - buy from someone else" form letter in return.<br />Not a problem. <br />Lee and Wrangler are the fashion here.<br /><br />If anyone is interested I would be happy to post a link to antigun companies.....

 

[tylerin]

Re: Maximum Hypocrisy!

Don't pollute the waters, Don't harm the environment. No slave labor, child labor laws etc. But by golley we'll buy from those who don't abide. This isn't fair trade, nor a level playing field. This is how Empires fall. Well if I'm lucky maybe I can go cut some sugar cane or something down in Mexico, if they'll let me across the border

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: Maximum Hypocrisy!

rodbolt - excellent post.<br /><br />This is a very difficult issue that I have struggled with in my own mind for many years. It seems what jobs we can't export, we import immigrants to perform on the cheap. American is being hollowed out like a basketball filled with dead air. <br /><br />Manufacturing jobs, once the backbone of this country are being exported and have been for decades. Now the trend even extends to white collar jobs like call centers and high tech jobs. Treaties like NAFTA are accelerating the trend. Every day you hear of more jobs leaving, whether it be Maytag moving to Mexico or Earthlink moving call center jobs to India and Jamaica. <br /><br />I have more questions than answers.<br /><br />What happens to all the American's who aren't equipped to go to college and become knowledge workers? <br /><br />How will America be kept from becoming a two class society, the very rich and the very poor?<br /><br />How can a nation survive when it produces nothing?<br /><br />Will the house of cards collapse the day American's no long have money to buy the cheap goods because they no longer have decent paying jobs?<br /><br />How long can a Nation's economy survive running astronomical trade deficits with nearly every country in the world?

 

[Elmer Fudge]

Re: Maximum Hypocrisy!

And what happens when one day, sometime in the near future ,some country like china or India decides to exercise santions upon us.

 

[crab bait]

Re: Maximum Hypocrisy!

LET 'EM TRY..i dare 'em<br /><br />i'll put my mexican peoples up again them people anyday..

 

[Elmer Fudge]

Re: Maximum Hypocrisy!

I'm concerned, as Ralph has stated "How can a nation survive when it produces nothing?"<br />there are many countries even some that we call our friends would like to bring us to our knees .This hemorrhaging of American jobs and the capacity to produce American made products and services can only in the long term leave this country vulnerable and to the mercy of our enemies.

 

[plywoody]

Re: Maximum Hypocrisy!

The problem with dynamic things like economies is that they change constantly. Trying to stop change is like trying to stop the tide. It won't work.<br />This is indeed a difficult issue, but one that requires some extensive study, as opposed to simplistic talk radio soundbites.<br /><br />There are lots of things that America can do better than anyone else, like engineering and producing pollution control equipment, heavy construction equipment and farm equipment, etc. Potentially alternate energy technologies, etc.<br /><br />Those sewer in textile factories were an endangered species with or without NAFTA, I'm afraid- whether it was Mexico, or automated processes, those jobs were going to disappear.<br /><br />On top of that, eventually even Mexican wages will improve, as labor is a commodity that is traded like anything else, and companies will recognize that the best workers are worth more--and the wage rate for them will increase--eventually turning the Mexican worker into a better worker, higher paid, and a consumer ultimately of some American products. It won't happen overnight, of course, but it will happen. <br /><br />It reminds me when everyone suggested that computers were going to put everyone out of work, and eliminate the need for paper products, etc...<br /><br />It takes forward thinking policies to meet these challenges, of course, and generation old economic policies are not going to do it, like we are currently trying.

 

[pjc]

Re: Maximum Hypocrisy!

Ahoy Plywoody--<br />

Those sewer in textile factories were an endangered species with or without NAFTA, I'm afraid- whether it was Mexico, or automated processes, those jobs were going to disappear.<br /><br />On top of that, eventually even Mexican wages will improve, as labor is a commodity that is traded like anything else, and companies will recognize that the best workers are worth more--and the wage rate for them will increase--eventually turning the Mexican worker into a better worker, higher paid, and a consumer ultimately of some American products. It won't happen overnight, of course, but it will happen. <br />

Unfortunately, the increase of the Mexican wage has recently been addressed. Mexican manufacturing jobs are currently being diverted to China. Real deal. So much for the intent of NAFTA. <br /><br />My opinion is that some of the US manufacturers are conscious of loyalty to the American Economy. <br /><br />Some are not. <br /><br />And US based business that are a mix of both US and foreign ownership or management are responsible for the move to seek lowest "cost" are the largest threat to our domestic economy.<br /><br /> Oh yea--we the US consumer, own responsibility, to a large degree, of our economic climate.

 

[Homerr]

Re: Maximum Hypocrisy!

Well... Thankfully I'm in a job that has no intention of leaving the US.<br /><br />Our mother company needs a US presence (my company) to sell and manufacture their products.<br /><br />If for some reason they did decide to move? <br />I would certainly go with them no matter where they went. Oregon (imo) is turning into a service and police state. The only things that will be left is service jobs.<br />If Bush passes the immigration fiasco, then Oregon and other states are doomed.<br />America in the whole won't be far behind.<br /><br />Personally, I like Levis. Wore them all my life adult life. If a company wants to leave, so be it. That's smart business as far as I can tell.<br />If they make they make them overseas and I can buy 3 to 1, so be it!<br /><br />Oregon just lost another 600+ jobs in the capital last week. They moved to Ohio (I think).<br />They at least offered to relocate workers and they kept the company in the US.<br />This is the second large company that has left our state within the past 3 months or so.<br /><br />Who do you blame? That's an interesting question.<br />Before answering that, I would like to know what happened in the first place? Everything was fine, and now we're broke. Then you get all the scandals being uncovered. Hmmmm.<br /><br />Very good post Boomyal. Excellent. <br />That's what I love about this board. So many walks of life, and so many intelligence levels.<br /><br />H.

 

[crab bait]

Re: Maximum Hypocrisy!

three pairs of levis for the price of one.. good buy.. just like 3 towels for the price of one.. what a steal..!! can't beat it..!!

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: Maximum Hypocrisy!

Pat - it is a death spiral<br /><br />Lack of good paying jobs forces people to buy cheap.<br /><br />Consumers demand for cheap good forces jobs off shore<br /><br />Lack of good paying jobs forces people to buy cheap.<br /><br />On and on and on until the crash....

 

[pjc]

Re: Maximum Hypocrisy!

imo Ralph--lack of sense, patriotism led to this--and the belief that we need more--"keep up with the Jones" syndrome.<br /><br />

Lack of good paying jobs forces people to buy cheap.<br />

Many folks buy "cheap" to accumulate more--more than neighbor so to speak. Christ, we can exist on basics with out purchasing designer goods. But we are purchasing designer goods. Got a pair of Niki's in the house?<br /><br />Furthermore, what is the latest item purchased that has a "Made In America" label on it that is in our households??

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: Maximum Hypocrisy!

Most designer goods aren't cheap even though they are produced cheaply. Designer goods tend to be American based companies. Discretionary spending is a small part of the spending pie. When two goods of eualy quality are on the shelf, the expensive item produced in the USA loses and the cheap import wins. You can't ask individuals to do the job of the government - fair trade - fair labor.