Low oil pressure warning light in a car

[eavega]

I had a question for the automotive gurus out there. How low does the oil pressure need to be to illumniate the low oil pressure light on a car, and what does it mean to have low oil pressure?
Let me put this in context; I have a 2006 Mazda 3 that was nearing the end of its warranty period last October. I knew the end of the warranty was coming, so I really started to pay close attention to any odd sound or feeling the car may have. I took it in to the local Mazda service center because of a buzzing that I had detected apparent only when the motor was cold (cold mornings, cold motor, buzzing noise. Disappeared after the motor warmed up). Turns out that there was a cracked motor mount which was replaced under warranty and I went on my merry way. Three weeks later I take the car back to the dealership on a flatbed. It threw a rod on the highway. Engine was toast. $6000 repair. Dealership asks me for my oil change records. My bad, I change the oil myself on my car and don't keep the receipts. When they investigated they found that the car had about 1 qt of oil in it. They chalked it up to owner negligence since I can't prove the condition of the oil. I actually can (the dealership gave me an "inspection sheet" when I had the motor mount replaced, which indicated the oil was in good condition and at a good level) but that is besides the point.

One thing that I noted was that the oil light never came on. I'm trying to get Mazda Motors to repair/replace the engine under warranty because due to the failure of the oil light I had no indication that the oil level was low. Even if I had all my receipts for oil changes, All we would've been able to determine is that the oil in the car was fresh on the first week of July. Mazda Motors says that the oil light is an oil pressure light and not an oil level indicator, so a low oil condition is user negligence any way you slice it.

Are they right? If my car was down 3 qt of oil (crankcase capacity is 4 qt), would there have been enough oil pressure to keep the dash light from illuminating? How long would the car even be able to function with only 1 qt of oil in it? I can honestly say I don't check the oil regularly, but then again I have never had an oil leak or any kind of oil consumption on this car. I change the oil religiously every 5K miles per the manufacturers maintenance schedule, and I use full synthetic at ever oil change. I suspect that the oil was inadvertently removed and not replaced when the dealership fixed the motor mounts, but would the car be able to get 800 miles before finally locking up? I'm basically trying to build a defense for this as I am taking the dealership and Mazda Motors to court. I have my mechanic looking into the matter now, but I just want a better understanding of where I have to concentrate my arguments. Any insight or opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Rgds

 

[Cofe]

Re: Low oil pressure warning light in a car

Is your mazda 3 a turbo charged motor?

With only one quart of oil in the motor, the rest of it had to go somewhere..........
Did the car smoke real bad?
Did the broken rod punch a hole in the oil pan?
Is there oil in the coolant system?

The oil light is only for oil pressure in the motor. It will also come on if the brake fluid level is low.

Your mechanic should provide some good evidence for you. Hope this helps a bit..

 

[eavega]

Re: Low oil pressure warning light in a car

Not the turbocharged model. My point exactly about the oil! No evidence of a leak, not burning oil. Oil just went missing. However the service center cannot admit that they may have taken the oil out and forgotten to replace it. According to them, their procedure for changing out the motor mount doesn't involve draining the oil so they couldn't possibly have drained it! The LOGICAL conclusion is that somebody came in behind them and drained the oil for some inknown reason. And,no, the thrown rod didn't penetrate the crankcase.

 

[Cofe]

Re: Low oil pressure warning light in a car

Yea the oil had to go somewhere.......Have your mechanic check the oil filter. I have had a old filter gasket stick to the filter mount, and when a new oil filter was installed, the two combined gaskets leaked.......but I caught mine when this happened. Those motor mounts for the mazda 3 are always breaking, the mazda forum has lots of documentation on that fact.

 

[rogerwa]

Re: Low oil pressure warning light in a car

I think you have a long road in front of you unless you can show the most recent oil change or get receipts. I wouldn't pay $6000. You can get a rebuilt long block for 2K or so and have it installed. You might even get a tech school to do the install if you supply the engine.. I would imagine the $6k is for a crate engine.

 

[Allbutwet]

Re: Low oil pressure warning light in a car

So long as there is enough oil to submerge the pick up tube on the pump. You will never set off the low oil pressure light. However that does not mean that the oil will not overheat.Thus causing a spun rod bearing. That said.The oil had to go somewhere. Hopefully your mechanic finds something in your favor. I second rogerwa. The car is new enough even a local community college might be able to do the swap for you. Good luck

 

[dolluper]

Re: Low oil pressure warning light in a car

Well doing it yourself usually voids warranty....good luck is all I can say

 

[eavega]

Re: Low oil pressure warning light in a car

I can't prove when the oil was fresh, but I do have the "courtesy inspection" report from the dealership from three weeks previous that stated the oil level and condition were both good. Even if I had kept the reciepts, it would only show that the oil was fresh on June 27th, which was when I last changed the oil. I know specifically when it was, b/c I changed the oil on both my car and my wife's car right before heading out for the 4th of July weekend. Neither here nor there. I'm just hoping the judge will consider the inspection checklist as proof that the oil level and condition was good and not "neglected" as Mazda contends. That will bypass the whole question of "what happened to the oil".

 

[MTboatguy]

Re: Low oil pressure warning light in a car

Without the required documentation, I would say, you have a very long road to hoe on this one, I had the double gasket thing happen once and was down to 1.5 quarts of oil in the truck and it did not set off the light, there was enough pressure in the engine to keep the light from coming on, but I noticed it was over heating and check the anti freeze, full, led me to check the oil, which was not showing up on the driveway, but was leaking out under pressure when I was driving it, fortunately I caught it before any major damage happened, that vehicle now has 191K miles on it. But again, without documentation, your going to have a real tough time getting them to replace the engine under warranty...you might be able to get your attorney to negotiate with them for a reduced cost replacement with a good warranty on it..but I doubt your going to get them to replace at no cost.

Sorry to be a downer, but I have seen it happen to many times..and despite the consumer laws in this country, the courts normally side with the companies unless there is a long running history of this type of problem with that model..

Good luck, maybe the inspection report will in fact prove your case, for you I hope so, for 6,000 you could probably get another car in great condition..

 

[infideltarget]

Re: Low oil pressure warning light in a car

The oil light ... It will also come on if the brake fluid level is low.

I have never heard of this. Ever. The "brake" light would come on in this case.

As far as the oil thing goes, it is illegal for them to void your warranty for you changing your oil your self, as long as you can prove you were using the correct specification oil. Check your auto parts store receipts for this, or go to the auto parts store and have them search your history. Dont let them tell you they cant. I have worked at both AZ and ADV, and they both have the capability. It is possible the oil was drained at the dealership, and if so, they would have to catalog it. They have to account for every quart they dispose of. Federal law says so. Check there. It is also possible that the oil vaporized through the PCV system. If you were having blow-by issues, it could have vented to the top of he engine through the PCV system, and vented out as stinky vapor. For this to happen though, you would have to have some serious ring issues, which would be covered under warranty. I could go on and on, but long story short...you will have a hard time proving the dealer or anyone else at fault this far after the fact. They are pretty godd at covering their mistakes, especially in economic times like these. If you keep pushing the issue, and stick to your guns, you will most likely get some relief though, because it is cheaper for them to just shut you up than to have it get back to corporate headquarters and potential bad press. Did you see any ideas in my last sentence? Maybe a couple of places to notify? Good luck...

 

[j_martin]

Re: Low oil pressure warning light in a car

Just in case readers missed it. The oil pressure warning light does not warn of low oil level. It only warns that oil pressure has failed, indicating a major bearing failure, or failure of the oil pump itself. You must regularly pull the dipstick and read it to keep track of engine oil level.

I'm afraid you may be up a creek on this one because just because the oil level was good 3 weeks ago doesn't mean you didn't let it run low.

I have, however, on 2 occasions seen engines that ran out of oil saved by the fact that they were running synthetic oil, which had enough staying power and film strength to prevent above said bearing failure. One was a Chevy 4.3, and the other a Dodge 3.9. The Dodge was getting the he** beat out of it by my teenage son when I confiscated it and found it had only about 1 qt of oil in it. That was 2 years ago, and I'm still using it.

 

[infideltarget]

Re: Low oil pressure warning light in a car

does the Mazda 3 have a low oil pressure light? or is it an oil pressure gauge, with an oil LEVEL light? hmmm...or...does it have separate lights for each? he would need to check his owners manual and see which it is, as they both perform very different functions, like j_martin said. I have seen cars with both, either, and neither. If it IS in fact an oil level light, a bad bulb or bad sending unit could actually get him some traction (pun) in his plight. just an idea.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Low oil pressure warning light in a car

You changed the oil last in July? That's a long time between changes. That alone would void the warranty. How many times did you check your oil since last july?

IThe oil light is only for oil pressure in the motor. It will also come on if the brake fluid level is low.

No it won't. C'mon, how could you logically even think that could be possible? Gee Marge, the oil light is on...better check my brake fluid!

 

[Cofe]

Re: Low oil pressure warning light in a car

You changed the oil last in July? That's a long time between changes. That alone would void the warranty. How many times did you check your oil since last july?

No it won't. C'mon, how could you logically even think that could be possible? Gee Marge, the oil light is on...better check my brake fluid!

No kidding, I had a 1992 Mazda 626 and the oil pressure light would come on if the brake fluid was low. It may be that the previous owner wired it that way, or came from the factory that way, I don't know. I was just about ready to tear down the motor to find the problem, and decided to make sure all the fluid levels were correct. Come to find out, the low brake fluid level was sending signal to the oil pressure light.
The parking brake light is supposed to come on when the brake fluid is low in a Mazda.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Low oil pressure warning light in a car

No kidding, I had a 1992 Mazda 626 and the oil pressure light would come on if the brake fluid was low. It may be that the previous owner wired it that way, or came from the factory that way, I don't know. I was just about ready to tear down the motor to find the problem, and decided to make sure all the fluid levels were correct. Come to find out, the low brake fluid level was sending signal to the oil pressure light.
The parking brake light is supposed to come on when the brake fluid is low in a Mazda.

So because someone wired your car after the factory incorrectly, you are telling the OP about this! Really?

 

[642mx]

Re: Low oil pressure warning light in a car

but I do have the "courtesy inspection" report from the dealership from three weeks previous that stated the oil level and condition were both good.

That inspection form is your only hope right now... which may work. (at least it shows the oil level was full). Also, let the judge know how many miles you drove between the inspection and the time it blew up. (if its only 500 miles, it may help your case)

Just thinking out loud, did you pay for the oil and filter with a credit/debit card? Is it possible to revisit the auto parts store and have them print you out the invoice?

 

[wifisher]

Re: Low oil pressure warning light in a car

It is very easy to check your oil pressure light. Turn the key on but don't start the engine. Is oil light on? If so it is working properly. One quart of oil may or may not build pressure. In your case it must have if there was no light on. You are not required to keep reciepts for oil changes. Dealers will try to tell you this, but in the end they have to honor their warranty. You are, however, required to check the oil periodically. There were three weeks between having the motor mount changed and the motor blowing. Did you check the oil at all during that time? Sorry. This one will be on your dime. I think 6k is too high. Get some estimates from other shops. Does not have to be a dealer. Independent shops often have better labor rates and just as good if not better mechanics.

 

[lncoop]

Re: Low oil pressure warning light in a car

It is very easy to check your oil pressure light. Turn the key on but don't start the engine. Is oil light on? If so it is working properly. One quart of oil may or may not build pressure. In your case it must have if there was no light on. You are not required to keep reciepts for oil changes. Dealers will try to tell you this, but in the end they have to honor their warranty. You are, however, required to check the oil periodically. There were three weeks between having the motor mount changed and the motor blowing. Did you check the oil at all during that time? Sorry. This one will be on your dime. I think 6k is too high. Get some estimates from other shops. Does not have to be a dealer. Independent shops often have better labor rates and just as good if not better mechanics.

+1. You might be able to negotiate with the dealer for a cheaper engine replacement if it comes to that. Everything is negotiable.

 

[ajgraz]

Re: Low oil pressure warning light in a car

I'm still curious for the OP to confirm whether the car is equipped with an oil pressure warning lamp or an oil level warning lamp. (Or both?)

If oil pressure, then yes, as has been said, you can still have pressure even when most of the oil is gone, and by the time that comes on, something's already seriously broken.

If oil level, then that baby should come on by the time you are no more than about 1/2-1 qt low. Heck the level light on my wife's 2004 LeSabre comes on if it's only 1/4 qt low.

If you have a level lamp, and (as someone said) you can confirm that the lamp works at key-on, then maybe Mazda Motors is lying about your oil level since they know (or believe) that you have no records to contradict them with.

I hate to say it though, but, as another poster said, it is your responsibility to keep oil level checked. I bet if you read your manual it will say something like "check oil level weekly, or every 300 miles," or even, "check oil level every time you get in the car."

It's also true they can't void your warranty for you changing your own oil, so don't worry about that tactic. If they bring that up then you know they are shady.

EDIT: and BTW, how do you know the rod did not break the crankcase? Did they SHOW YOU the taken-down engine?

 

[eavega]

Re: Low oil pressure warning light in a car

Rgds