Looking for advice on Ford based, EFI V8's from 1993-1996...

[MasterGoa]

Re: Looking for advice on Ford based, EFI V8's from 1993-1996...

Welp, we are moving forward.

With the help of my local Ford service director, I got plans
for the ECA circuits.

They were not 100% accurate, so I took a pic of the ECA label to confirm,
however it seems that the ECA relay is faulty and only provides 7.8V at 1000RPM...

So half the ECA is starved for voltage...

Stay tuned...

 

[djpeters]

Re: Looking for advice on Ford based, EFI V8's from 1993-1996...

Keep us posted!

 

[MasterGoa]

Re: Looking for advice on Ford based, EFI V8's from 1993-1996...

Well, before doing the ECA relay test, they ask to check connectivity between
the power leads to the ECA and the relay and I get 1.99999K Ohm on one lead
and 4.99999K Ohm on the other lead. I am supposed to have under 5 Ohm
on both leads, at least, from the 1994 manual. I guess I will wait for the correct
book I ordered last week...

But else than this, I am all alone.

I cannot find an OMC or Volvo EEC IV code reader, so I will try
an Innova one...

Sigh...

 

[MasterGoa]

Re: Looking for advice on Ford based, EFI V8's from 1993-1996...

Well, got the precise book for the engines and yes, the ECA power wires should
be black-purple so now I fully expect to see a spliced ECA 60 pin cable under
the wrapping tape (mine are red, pin 37 and 57...)

Oh what fun...

On a good note, my local Ford dealer lend me his 60 pin breakout box
It will come back to him with a bottle of wine, of course

 

[MasterGoa]

Re: Looking for advice on Ford based, EFI V8's from 1993-1996...

HA!

Well, this is a nice case of misdirection.
Having had my first bit of info from my Ford dealer,
I assumed I had found my two 12v power leads to
the ECA... Well, I had not, those wires were PINK
and not RED.

I DO have Black/Purple wires.
This was confirmed by having a Ford breakout box
that my local Ford dealer lent me, free of charge,
as EEC-V has a 104 pin connector so that 60 pin breakout
box was unused for a decade.

That was of great help because you can do over 40 tests
from the book in just 5 minutes.

Diagnosis: VBAT all across the ECA, reference voltage
that has to be between 4-6v is at 5.01V (!) and the
11.6V readings I was getting was actually power that starts
from the battery at the engine side and then go back and forth
to the ignition switch (key). Guess what I am doing this
rainy Saturday

SO, now I need a code reader, which is on it's way and I will
check the connections on the engine side of the dash.

Cant wait to see what code I raise.

But I tell ya, when I finish all tests including a cylinder balance test
successfully, I am going to be a happy camper!

Stay tuned a little bit further

 

[MasterGoa]

Re: Looking for advice on Ford based, EFI V8's from 1993-1996...

Interesting.

Seems that my two ignition switches are bleeding voltage...

13.1 going in, and 12.1 coming out of one and 12.6 coming out of the other...

I will check in the neutral switch bleeds volts as well.
But that explain the low voltage at the relays back at the engines...

Also, upon reading the symptoms I have, seems that the Manifold
Absolute Pressure sensors are at fault. One key symptom: Up and down RPM
at idle. Right engine more obvious, left more subtle. But if they step out of range,
the engines go into FMEM...

Something to note about FMEM on Ford engines:
Injectors are set to 100% duty cycle at intake stroke , YIKES!!!

By comparison, cruising at 3000 RPM, they should be at around 28% duty cycle...
Holy fuel consumption batman!!!

 

[djpeters]

Re: Looking for advice on Ford based, EFI V8's from 1993-1996...

Interesting...

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Looking for advice on Ford based, EFI V8's from 1993-1996...

Interesting.

Seems that my two ignition switches are bleeding voltage...

13.1 going in, and 12.1 coming out of one and 12.6 coming out of the other...

I will check in the neutral switch bleeds volts as well.
But that explain the low voltage at the relays back at the engines...

Also, upon reading the symptoms I have, seems that the Manifold
Absolute Pressure sensors are at fault. One key symptom: Up and down RPM
at idle. Right engine more obvious, left more subtle. But if they step out of range,
the engines go into FMEM...

Something to note about FMEM on Ford engines:
Injectors are set to 100% duty cycle at intake stroke , YIKES!!!

By comparison, cruising at 3000 RPM, they should be at around 28% duty cycle...
Holy fuel consumption batman!!!

omething to note about FMEM on Ford engines:
Injectors are set to 100% duty cycle at intake stroke , YIKES!!!.....

Could you elaborate a bit futher.....Is this a tbi mpi 100% duty cycle at what rpm...did you take a read off the injector or is there a manual that illustrate's that. Do you know where the high pressure fuel rail is at...or running under pressure?

 

[MasterGoa]

Re: Looking for advice on Ford based, EFI V8's from 1993-1996...

No, this is not from a read, but rather a tech note from Ford,
at least for cars.

In FMEM mode, they SOOOOO NOT want to have any detonation
that they just gouge the engine with fuel...

So the note says that the injectors are running at 100% duty cycle
in the intake stroke... That is all I have.

Funny thing is that it might actually have better milage at WOT lolll

Also, ECC-IV injection of rhis Ford is sequential
so it is an MPI with one injector PER CYLINDER!
8 injectors total...

 

[MasterGoa]

Re: Looking for advice on Ford based, EFI V8's from 1993-1996...

Well, finally got today:
Innova 31403 Scanner
Fluke AC89 isolation probe
Fluke i410 AC/DC amp meter.

Mirror, mirror on the wall, oh what codes are making stall...
(Ok, I do not stall, but it rhymes)

 

[MasterGoa]

Re: Looking for advice on Ford based, EFI V8's from 1993-1996...

So imagine my disappointment when I hooked up the brand new, updated
and tested code reader on the engines and, even if it sees they are Ford EEC-IV
and I see the Ford menu, I cannot read codes or start tests

I will see what the Ford dealer says. There is a 5V - wire missing from the DLC,
so maybe I need to set up an extra wire.

I will also contact Innova Pro to see what they are expecting in terms of wires...



HALP!

 

[500dollar744ti]

Re: Looking for advice on Ford based, EFI V8's from 1993-1996...

Have you tried jumping power from the battery strait to the injection system? If the voltage is still low, you have a ground problem. If the voltage is good, you have an issue in the positive feed.

EEC-IV does not control the alternator(s). The computer is not likely to tell you anything, EEC-IV is too simple to store useful diagnostic info.

The way I approach an issue like you're having, and I know I could fix it if I were there, is to start from the beginning and patiently trace wiring.

Your problem is that your injection system is not getting adequate voltage. It doesn't matter if your alternator is charging at 14.6v or 13.4v, it should run properly at either of those.

The fact that you said pressing the trim button is enough to make the problem occur leads me to believe you have a ground problem, however since it's a boat, it could be the positive side. Usually ground is the side that corrodes first. My hunch is you should start looking at where the trim pump is grounded, I'll bet it's somewhere near where the injection system is grounded.

I had a similar problem on my boat and it was the engine block ground having too much resistance. My engine was actually stalling when I hit the trim button. Mine isn't fuel injected but the ground problem was dropping the voltage to the coil enough that it couldn't fire. I followed the ground on the trim pump to the same engine block stud that grounded the ignition module.

 

[MasterGoa]

Re: Looking for advice on Ford based, EFI V8's from 1993-1996...

Thanks for the insight 500, however, as you might read through,
the voltage drop was irrelevant and a false conclusion on my part.

It seems the voltage drop is at the ignition keys, which bleed about 1V each.

As for the engines, my reading the OMC EFI book, it looks like it is a MAP
sensor issue.

I have, however, got a few hints on why I cant pull codes...

Stay tuned!

 

[djpeters]

Re: Looking for advice on Ford based, EFI V8's from 1993-1996...

Good luck. I keep checking back to see if you've figured it out....

 

[MasterGoa]

Re: Looking for advice on Ford based, EFI V8's from 1993-1996...

Eureka!

Well, it seems that I have an ECT that goes dark while in motion!
Had nothing to do with the MAP sensor...

Finally figured out how to use ANY Ford OBD1 scanner
on these engines!

So, I will flip my strategy and use my breakout box to see
what actually happens when the engine is warm.

Interestingly enough, it would make somewhat sense as the 3
weeks it was going great where the 3 hottest weeks in terms of water
temp. So are my thermostats opening too soon or are the sensors
bad? We shall find out!n

 

[MasterGoa]

Re: Looking for advice on Ford based, EFI V8's from 1993-1996...

For those who are visual:

 

[MasterGoa]

Re: Looking for advice on Ford based, EFI V8's from 1993-1996...

Well, did a few tests yesterday and both engines came out of all tests with code 11: All systems OK... :-/

I guess I will have to use the breakout box to track what is going on...

I hope it's not the ECM's themselves...

 

[Dadstir]

Re: Looking for advice on Ford based, EFI V8's from 1993-1996...

I have a 1996 EFI and we are having issues ourselves. Like this link as it may help us coordinate with our mechanic.
I have a 1996 5.0fi. Engine: 5.0FAPNCS Outdrive: SXCOBRA 3868388
First lake trip this summer boat ran great first part of the day then had small delays in restarting when at operating temperature. Next day, same thing, except half way through the day it took about 15 minutes to get it started. I had the alternator rebuilt and went out again, same thing, except it would not start again, had to be towed in. It has spark when it's cold and no spark once its at running temperature (tested with a spark tester). Had the battery tested, its good. Before I gave up I replaced all plugs, wires, coil and stator. Fuel pumps run when key is on. Couple of strange things worth mentioning: When I would put a battery charger on, the boat never fails to start at anytime. Once or twice when it was warm and not starting I moved the trim down and it fired. Short?? I've had issues with worn wiring at the shifter and a stiff throttle , but I don't know if this would effect anything. I ran out of time and patience so I took it to a marine mechanic. It's been at the mechanic for 3 1/2 weeks, but it seems he has taken us in circles and we are no closer now than before. At first, he couldn't duplicate the problem, said it ran like a ban-chi in the tank, then he installed a new shifter cable. He started trouble shooting the no fire when warm problem and said the syphine valve at the gas tank was bad, replaced that. After that, he said our trim motor and relay where bad because of a short from one of the wires that fried them. Then on Friday, he said he finally duplicated the first problem. He told me I had a bad alternator reading and needed a new alternator. I picked up the alternator and had it re-tested at the place that rebuilt it and it tested good and I gave it back to the mechanic. Now the mechanic is saying the alternator company can't test the way Volvo Penta requires and it could still be the alternator. I hope he is right after reading MasterGoa's thread. If it's not the alternator again any suggestions?

 

[MasterGoa]

Re: Looking for advice on Ford based, EFI V8's from 1993-1996...

Get a code reader and get the running codes after the KOEO test...

 

[Dadstir]

Re: Looking for advice on Ford based, EFI V8's from 1993-1996...

Thanks. I will ask the mechanic today.