Light a match and watch it burn? PLEASE help... at a lose and it grew on me

[djzyla1980]

The ongoing sagga continues.... Day in and day out it is something else...something new... but no matter what I do it leads me in another direction... Unfortanatly for me the damn thing has grown on me and as much as I want to burn the SOB I just can't get that match in the carb...<br /><br />"Boat out for first time in my hands and had many probs was the first post I did.... many others followed... I read I learn and try..but something else pops up.... heres whats next as the sagga continues:<br /><br />All four cylinders firing, comp good, good spark, running a bit lean, pulled carbs no crap cleaned, and put back together... gas spitting from 4 cylinder carb throat. Tore her down again adjust the float now no gas.. be she is still the only one cylinder "blowing air" rather then sucking... <br />Tried to start no luck... tore apart timing (at wits end here) cleaned everything looks like the brand new parts they are... Put it back together and found it sounds like it's 180 off....again... So I took it apart and found where #1 piston comes TDC and look to make sure timming is there...or close made a change to the cam...not 180 put her back together and started her up... Ran EXTREMELY smooth at idle. Give it ANY gas it dies... Pulled plugs they look good but might be running a bit lean still... fiddle with throttle don't matter any gas she dies. Put cowl on it started it up and after about running 1 minute at idle it starts to surge. Surges a bit and cuts back so on and so forth til I shut her off.... Remember no surging with cover off<br /><br />ANY IDEAS?????

 

[Jcstratt]

Re: Light a match and watch it burn? PLEASE help... at a lose and it grew on me

blowing air out the carbs? What do the reeds look like?

 

[djzyla1980]

Re: Light a match and watch it burn? PLEASE help... at a lose and it grew on me

I was begining to think maybe thats what it was.... it's only on the #4 cyl Very very odd... Dark outside so I'll take a look tomorrow.... Not all that formiliar with what exactly the reeds do.... just know most of the time it's NOT them... but in this case I think it may be. Manual is very vague in there trouble shooting area. I'm begining to think it's the onlt thing left. Either that or timing still but no other carb does it

 

[c903]

Re: Light a match and watch it burn? PLEASE help... at a lose and it grew on me

Dave:<br /><br />After reading about your problems and all that you have done, I can only say;.....send me your address and I'll FedX you some matches and I'll pay the postage! <br /><br />Hang in there!

 

[c903]

Re: Light a match and watch it burn? PLEASE help... at a lose and it grew on me

Dave:<br /><br />Check this post. <br /><br /> http://www.outboardrepairs.com/topics/015333.html

 

[djzyla1980]

Re: Light a match and watch it burn? PLEASE help... at a lose and it grew on me

The funny thing is though.... It's all the time.. idle Full throttle (noticed it before so tore carbs apart..... it's not out a vent or anything like that it's comming from the throat of the carb.... and only on that one throat... If unformiliar V4 2 carbs 4 throats... if it was a carb needle seat issue I would expect it to flow out of the throat that sits lower... the whole boat is on an uphill slant from left to right...it's actually the throat sitting higher then the other...<br /><br />I can place my hand over each throat. Every other throat sucks air in... this one blows................<br />LITERALLY<br /><br />Looked in manual...might be wrong but no reeds?... could be the diagram could be me... talks alot about leaf plates<br /><br />Theres a Box of strike anywhere's sitting next to it...A BIG box cause at first you don't suceed...try again..

 

[djzyla1980]

Re: Light a match and watch it burn? PLEASE help... at a lose and it grew on me

After a bit of look here sounds like my reeds need changed.... but it's kinda odd that it still idles as good as it does....

 

[c903]

Re: Light a match and watch it burn? PLEASE help... at a lose and it grew on me

Dave:<br /><br />I am not a marine engine mechanic. However, when it comes to troubleshooting a 2-cycle outboard engine I often revert to my experience with 2-cycle engines from my bike riding and racing days. <br /><br />I recall that when a carb was experiencing “blowback” or simply not sucking fuel, and the bike was one with reed (leaf) valves, we usually considered two possibilities...of several; 1) bad/sticking reed/leaf valve, and/or 2) leaking or blown crank seal(s). Most of the time the problem would be a broken or sticking (gummed/varnished) leaf valve.<br /><br />Also consider a blocked or partially blocked exhaust. Have you decarboned your engine lately?

 

[djzyla1980]

Re: Light a match and watch it burn? PLEASE help... at a lose and it grew on me

Thats funny.... that you should ask... I was just pondering about doing that since the last post. If you have read my other post ... I only paid $100 for this package... I've only had the boat for about 2 weeks.. It wasn't running when I got it so I've made a few large leaps since then. looks like I will revert to that before terin her apart... luckily I'm in a bigger city so finding the stuff won't be hard. Maybe I'll roll the dice and luck will be on my side... If not the box has that neat strip on the side of it....just in case you can't find anywhere to strike um ..

 

[c903]

Re: Light a match and watch it burn? PLEASE help... at a lose and it grew on me

Dave:<br /><br />I perused your prior posts regarding the history of your engine. Only God knows what that engine has been through and how abused and ill-maintained it may have been. <br /><br />Keep those matches handy! LOL

 

[djzyla1980]

Re: Light a match and watch it burn? PLEASE help... at a lose and it grew on me

I hear ya... will decarb and see what happens this evening... after the grill cools...

 

[elmo]

Re: Light a match and watch it burn? PLEASE help... at a lose and it grew on me

friend, engines are engines, sorry your having all the problems with this one..... a piston on it's upward travel during compression is exactly that, compressing air, like a balloon the air can only compress without any leaks. engines have valves of some sort, and timing is the term referring to the position of the piston travel and valve. stick pin in a balloon, out comes air. stick open a valve - out comes air. sounds like the folks here have you on right track, but remember timing controls valves, valves control compression. hope this helps

 

[Walker]

Re: Light a match and watch it burn? PLEASE help... at a lose and it grew on me

If you pull that carb you can see the reeds in there.

 

[djzyla1980]

Re: Light a match and watch it burn? PLEASE help... at a lose and it grew on me

Rolled the dice.... and the dealer won<br /><br />Decarbed the engine and the only thing I can say is um.... WOW.... how much better she runs at lower idle... but still the same probs... So tommorrow I pull the carbs... and the intake if needed... see what it looks like then head for the top and tear it down again.... and realign... to uncover the the mystery that it is.... I was thinking the timming originally... Now I don't know So I'll tear her down more and more to see what exactly is goin on in there... one good thing she'll be nice and perdy...

 

[djzyla1980]

Re: Light a match and watch it burn? PLEASE help... at a lose and it grew on me

Hmmmm.... just might have gotten this one uncovered.... Took carbs off... looked at reeds... all that I could see looked good but I wanted to see more... Took the intake off... and there and behold .... It wasn't right something was missing...literally missing.. One valve completely tore off.. where did it go I aksed myslef... but I found it..lodged, but there it was... But the one question I still have is how in the heck did it tear off of there... and does this mean more probs if I fix and put back together? I did find it but what would have caused it to tear off?

 

[Basscat 1]

Re: Light a match and watch it burn? PLEASE help... at a lose and it grew on me

Reeds have been known to break after somebody turns them over to try and get more life out of them. Where was it lodged?<br />You are lucky the engine didnt swallow it.

 

[djzyla1980]

Re: Light a match and watch it burn? PLEASE help... at a lose and it grew on me

I actually think luck might be going on my side for now.... It got lodged in one of the passasges to the cylinder... looks like the piston caught the very edge of it and it got binded between the walls inside those cavities... actually took a good pair of needle nose, good grip and a good tug to free it up... looked at cylinder wall and all seems fine.. Now that I got this thing off do I replace ALL of them or just the one side. Looking at about 130 for one side. Unless theres a cheaper answer or product I haven't seen yet

 

[TBarCYa]

Re: Light a match and watch it burn? PLEASE help... at a lose and it grew on me

Someone had mentioned the possibility of a broken crank sealing ring. How would you test for a broken crank sealing ring?? I have the same symptoms (carb blowing on one cylinder) and have checked the reeds and they pass the flashlight test. I have not yet decarbed the engine but I will try that.

 

[djzyla1980]

Re: Light a match and watch it burn? PLEASE help... at a lose and it grew on me

Tbar... what other symptoms does yours have... other then blowing on one carb.. what motor? Just curious.

 

[ddbyrd3]

Re: Light a match and watch it burn? PLEASE help... at a lose and it grew on me

Dave my opnion about your reeds is this, if you are there, you might as well replace them all... If one went, more than likely one of the others are not far behind like BC suggested..<br /><br />Do it once and know that it is done.....