Lemon Law - Update to "Happy Ending or Beginning of Nightmare?" thread

[Ob1415]

And so the saga continues.....

After picking up my brand new 2011 Glastron GT 205 from having the motor swapped, the stereo did not work.

I found that it was a bad harness. I brought the boat back to the dealer amd they decided to eliminate the harness and hard wire the stereo. Sounds simple enough, right? WRONG!!!

They assured me that they completed the repair and tested everything and that everything is now working fine. They dropped the boat off at my house. When I got home from work, I hopped in the boat toconfirm all was working. I flip on the stereo, it plays for all of 5 seconds, then dies. I check the vent an bilge pump toggles...no power. I turn the key...no power. I open the engine bay and find that 2 of the fuses blew out. I look at the bottom of the bay and see several blown fuses scattered about.

This tells me that they knew there was an issue and returned the boat to me anyway!!! WTF?

I called them this morning and demanded that they come pick up the boat and that they either give me another brand new boat or refund my $ and I will purchase another boat elsewhere. They said they would pick it up amd look at it. Advised them to look all the want, but I will not take this boat back as the safety and reliability has been compromised and that I have no confidence in this boat to take my family out onto a lake in it. Advised them that boats are covered under the Magnusson Moss Warranty Act in TX and that I will go that route if necessary. He said that, that would not be necessary as they intend to "make it right".

They picked up the boat and said they would call me soon to discuss the solution. We'll see what happens...

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: Lemon Law - Update to "Happy Ending or Beginning of Nightmare?" thread

Man Ob1415 what a drag, I am so sorry. This really sucks

Please keep us informed, if for nothing else a place for you to vent

 

[jmarty10]

Re: Lemon Law - Update to "Happy Ending or Beginning of Nightmare?" thread

Wow - I cant believe they pick the boat up at your house. You would think if they were going to waste that amount of time they would get it right. I could be wrong but usually lemon lawss require three failures in a reasonable time. I would say three strikes and there out. When they complete the work, go to the marina have them take the boat on the water with you and run the snot out of it. Make sure everything works before they put it in your driveway again.

 

[Ob1415]

Re: Lemon Law - Update to "Happy Ending or Beginning of Nightmare?" thread

Wow - I cant believe they pick the boat up at your house. You would think if they were going to waste that amount of time they would get it right. I could be wrong but usually lemon lawss require three failures in a reasonable time. I would say three strikes and there out. When they complete the work, go to the marina have them take the boat on the water with you and run the snot out of it. Make sure everything works before they put it in your driveway again.

This is now their 5th attempt in the 4 weeks since I purchased the boat. This boat has literally spent more time in their repai shop than it has at my house or in the water.

 

[blifsey]

Re: Lemon Law - Update to "Happy Ending or Beginning of Nightmare?" thread

...When they complete the work, go to the marina have them take the boat on the water with you and run the snot out of it. Make sure everything works before they put it in your driveway again.

I agree with this. Have them SHOW you that everything works. Take along a video camera to really freak them out

 

[blifsey]

Re: Lemon Law - Update to "Happy Ending or Beginning of Nightmare?" thread

PS - we had a Glastron GX205 (they were GX's in 2002) for 10 seasons and REALLY REALLY REALLY enjoyed it. I hope they get this fixed for you and you get the same pleasure from your boat!!!

 

[Ob1415]

Re: Lemon Law - Update to "Happy Ending or Beginning of Nightmare?" thread

Thanks for all the advice guys, but I think you guys are missing the point...I do not want THIS boat back. After having the motor swapped and all the electrical issues (which would need to be gutted and re-done completely), is this really a "New Boat"? I certainly don't feel the joy of a "New Boat" owner. I did not pay $30K (CASH!!!) to get a boat that I do not trust when it comes to reliability and the safety of my family.

Don't get me wrong, the dealer has bent over backwards and has went above and beyond what most would have (loaner, pick up, drop off, etc). I do not blame them for the defect in the motor, but I do hold them responsible for all of the electrical issues that were supposedly "fixed and tested", and for returning the boat to me knowing that is was popping fuses (no less than 6 burnt fuses left in the engine bay when I got it back from them).

I feel that I have been cheated out of my new boat owner experience and have ZERO emotional attachment to THIS boat, seeing as how I have only logged 6 hours on it and it has been in the shop the rest of the time.

 

[Woodnaut]

Re: Lemon Law - Update to "Happy Ending or Beginning of Nightmare?" thread

Ob, sorry to hear about all of this. And you're completely correct in all that you have said. The fact is, this particular dealership - as good as it might be - seems to be suffereing from not have a good technician. I run an instrumentation engineering group in the oilfield and we have a dozen cracker jack techs. These guys specialize in turning bad situations into first class, top notch, reliable conditions. The truth is, if you could get a REAL tech to take a look at your rig, it could be fixed every bit as good as new. Unfortunately, it sounds like that particular dealership in just not capable of making that happen. I know you say you're done with this particular boat, but it seems that it really could be sorted out by a qualified individual. Perhaps it might be good for you to go and carefully inspect the rig before you take delivery again. Hope all works out well for you - it's almost time to go boating. - Woodnaut

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Lemon Law - Update to "Happy Ending or Beginning of Nightmare?" thread

You are finding out that while many marine dealers claim to have xxxxxx Certified Technicians, they are not "electrically certified" and are simply not capable of diagnosing, isolating, and properly correcting electrical issues. Furthermore, because a person is able to pass a written test does not mean that person is qualified to perform proper mechanical work. Stand firm with your demands and document every phone call, letter, take pictures. In the event you end up in a legal squabble these will come in very handy. My daughter ran into a similar situation with a brand new Glastron and the dealer ended up buying the boat back after realizing they would end up in court if they didn't. Unfortunately such incompetence is widespread in the marine industry.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Lemon Law - Update to "Happy Ending or Beginning of Nightmare?" thread

Sorry about your problems; that is very maddening. Many people who buy new boats pay that extra 25% so they won't have to deal with the stuff that we owners of old boats deal with constantly.
Sounds like the dealer, on the sales side, is trying hard, but he has incompentent staff in the repair side. They are often like 2 seperate companies.
As far as legal action goes, a couple of thoughts, no advice:
While many states have lemon laws for cars, I don't think any have them for other goods including boats. If that's the case, disregard that route.
If there are other consumer protection laws available, you have to be sure to comply exactly. Those cases can be lost because the customer gave written notice but not by certified mail. Every detail has to be followed. So you have to know the law(s) cold before you start.
Many consumer protection remedies are available only if the problems affect safety or materially affect the performance of the item. This is also true for remedies under the UCC--the "noncompliance" or "non-conforming goods" has to be material. For example, a bad stereo, alone, will not allow you to take back a car; the car is still a car without tunes. Your case, however, may be different with the engine issue as well as the electrical system. Therefore focus your complaints, and the way you document them, on the electrical and not the stereo.

You mentioned Magnusson Moss; I haven't looked at it in a while to say whether it applies, but be sure it does and that you comply. Considering the size of your investment that you are protecting, you might want a lawyer in your state to look at it. it's money well spent at the front end.* He will advise you that if you go to court, how many months it will be before it is resolved (all while you are paying the bank) who gets attorneys fees, or not, and who pays the storage fees on the boat until you get to court and it's decided. Therefore, consider some form of mediation so you can get it resolved quickly. One thing is certain: if you sue, you won't be boating this summer.

*Many lawyers, like repair shops, make a lot money trying to undo what the client has done on his own.

 

[Sparke]

Re: Lemon Law - Update to "Happy Ending or Beginning of Nightmare?" thread

Call your attorney general and see how that goes, a friend of mine had some issues with his pickup and that was the route he ended going down. Good luck.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Lemon Law - Update to "Happy Ending or Beginning of Nightmare?" thread

they decided to eliminate the harness and hard wire the stereo. Sounds simple enough, right?

This is the point when things really started to go wrong.

 

[MTboatguy]

Re: Lemon Law - Update to "Happy Ending or Beginning of Nightmare?" thread

I would demand that the boat as a new boat, needs to have all of the parts installed correctly as the factory did, eliminating the factory wiring harness sounds like it was a mistake. One time in my life I did buy a new car that had electrical problems and they screwed around with the wiring, caused more problems, so by time it was all said and done, they had to put all of the original wiring back in the car, the company supplied the new wiring harnesses, they told them at the dealership if they did not restore to original, they were going to have to pay for all costs associated with any repairs done under warranty and they threatened to pull the line from them.

There is no reason to pull a factory set up and replace with a garage hard wire fix, I would have never let them do that...

 

[jkust]

Re: Lemon Law - Update to "Happy Ending or Beginning of Nightmare?" thread

Sorry for your troubles. It sounds to me like you are unfortunately in the life is not always fair zone. I hope you have some recourse here. I didn't catch whatever your thread was prior to this one but I'm gathering here that the Glastron factory really dropped the ball putting this boat together. If you dropped 30k in cash, how was it that the end result of your boat research lead you to Glastron? 30k gives you a lot of choices and freedom. I think someone mentioned it above but yes a huge benefit of a slightly used boat is the issues are potentially already known and/or dealt with. This is interesting to me also because folks always tend to point out that budget boats and premium boats have the same engine when justifying/crediting/dissing any given brand. I wonder how much credence I give to that when the workmanship varies so widely. I don't give the quality surveys much credit but wondered how brand x gets poor marks compared to brand y when they both have the same power package. This sounds like an example of a negative survey response. I actually am a little bit suprised a 2011 boat still uses fuses and not breakers as have been used for so many years. Again, I'd be upset if I were in your shoes. Even the mention an attorney is a real bummer when all you want to do is boat.

 

[Ob1415]

Re: Lemon Law - Update to "Happy Ending or Beginning of Nightmare?" thread

Update - Just got off the phone with the GM at the dealership. According to him, my BRAND NEW BOAT will be ordered today and will be on a truck from Cadillac, MI if not today, then first thing tomorrow morning and should arrive to their shop no later than Saturday. He asked if I still wanted the same color and options, and confirmed the order while I was on the phone. He apologized and understood my frustration and lack of confidence in the "old" boat. He said that he will handle all of the title stuff and go through every inch of the new boat personally, to ensure that the new boat has no issues. He seemed very sincere and empathetic to my frustration. I sure hope that all of these promises are fulfilled.

@ jkust - being a buyer who was only interested in brand new 20' boats in that price range, my main options were Glastron, Tahoe, Bayliner and Cimarron (Larson). Of these brands, Glastron had the best reputation, reviews, style and option package in my opinion. This is, afterall a "toy". I cant justify spending any more than that on something I will use on weekends for 6 months out of the year. Sure, I could have bought a "higher end" used boat. But that's not what I wanted.

BTW - I will not be giving Glastron a negative survey response. They didn't build the motor, nor did they screw up the electrical wiring. I only place blame where/when warranted and give credit when due. Merc gets credit for swapping the motor instead of tearing down and rebuilding, and the dealer gets credit for always stepping up and trying to make it right (even if it didn't always work out).

 

[jmarty10]

Re: Lemon Law - Update to "Happy Ending or Beginning of Nightmare?" thread

Well congratulations! You dealer, while technically inept, is pretty standup. Dont think I've seen or heard of a brand new boat being returned and replaced like yours.

 

[Albee]

Re: Lemon Law - Update to "Happy Ending or Beginning of Nightmare?" thread

I have and will continue to follow your two threads. It is a bummer that you have been going thru these issues. It does sounds like your dealer is trying to do the right thing.
I am waiting for my new gt 205, and feel comfortable that the dealer that I choose will also stand behind his product.
This whole issue sure reinforces how important it is to feel comfortable with the dealer you buy from.
Best of luck to you. Albee

 

[Captain Caveman]

Re: Lemon Law - Update to "Happy Ending or Beginning of Nightmare?" thread

I'm glad to hear that the dealer is doing the right thing. The motor issue aside (since the specific problem wasn't stated), it sounds like the dealer's biggest problem is in the fit-out / rigging department. The electrical problems were most likely their fault as well as the sub-standard repair work they attempted. I would make sure that the next new boat is properly fitted out and let them know that you'll be focusing on that aspect.

For others who contemplate the Lemon Law route, I have some personal advice as well. Seeing the post from Home Cookin' (below) brought back a few memories. I had to utilize the Lemon Law to get Ford to buy back a problematic truck. The dealerships were a giant headache and Ford only listened once I got the Better Business Bureau involved. They assigned me an "agent" who helped negotiate with Ford's attorneys. Home Cookin' is right that the safety of the vehicle or the "value" of the vehicle had to be compromised. My truck did not have a major safety issue, but over the span of 1.5 years had been in the shop more than on the road. I was able to successfully argue that the multitude of problems and time in the shop had impaired my ability to sell the truck. They gave me a lowball offer of an extended warranty or something. I reiterated my demand for a full buy back. Eventually they offered to give me a new truck (minus a tiny usage fee for the miles actually driven) which I accepted. It was not an easy fight but was worth it in the end. The point of me relaying this story is to demonstrate that dealers may not be your only point of contact, the BBB can actually be useful, and to make sure that you research the laws thoroughly if you plan to get a big ticket item returned. They don't like to do it but when you are in the right, fight like he** to get things remedied.

Many consumer protection remedies are available only if the problems affect safety or materially affect the performance of the item. This is also true for remedies under the UCC--the "noncompliance" or "non-conforming goods" has to be material. For example, a bad stereo, alone, will not allow you to take back a car; the car is still a car without tunes. Your case, however, may be different with the engine issue as well as the electrical system. Therefore focus your complaints, and the way you document them, on the electrical and not the stereo.

 

[Ob1415]

Re: Lemon Law - Update to "Happy Ending or Beginning of Nightmare?" thread

Okay...it's official now! I just received a copy of the invoice for my new boat. It shows rush freight for delivery to the dealership on Friday morning. The GM advised that he will put his Master Tech on it on top priority for the fit out and pre delivery inspection and that they will deliver the boat to my house on Friday afternoon. I opted to pick it up from their shop so that if any defects are found, they can address them before I bring it home.

I noticed on the invoice that he also ordered a new trailer. As a gesture of good faith and appreciation for their resolve, I offered to keep my existing trailer to save them some $ and title/registration work since there was nothing wrong with the trailer. I also told him to just put my existing Bimini on the new boat too, but he already planned to do that He also advised that there would be a full tank of gas and a few extras waiting for me, for my troubles.


Despite all the issues, I can still honestly say that this dealer really takes care of their customers.

If all goes as planned, I will FINALLY be back on the water this weekend. Keeping my fingers crossed and knocking on wood.

@ Captain Caveman - I too, had to battle it out with Ford and won. Not only did they give me a new Expedition, but they also upgraded me to the 5.7L with 4WD, at no extra cost. It pays off to do your research, know your rights and separate you emotions from the communication with the dealerships/mfg.'s. When you present your case in a professional, matter of fact manner, they take you more seriously. Also, buying a new boat in cash is an indication of disposable income. I think he knew I was serious when I told him I would seek legal action, if necessary.

 

[MTboatguy]

Re: Lemon Law - Update to "Happy Ending or Beginning of Nightmare?" thread

Glad to hear you got everything worked out..sounds like everybody will be happy all around.