Legislators Weigh Changes To Gun Laws

Tinkerer

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Re: Legislators Weigh Changes To Gun Laws

Originally posted by ae708:<br /> My thoughts are that if you are happy with the gun controls in Australia good for you. Otherwise leave America alone and let us live our own lives.
I agree with that, except to the extent that America exports such a powerful gun culture to other countries through its movies, TV shows, and computer games, as well as through its law enforcement practices and products.<br /><br />When I was a kid in the 50's and early 60's it wasn't a big deal to see people carrying rifles here, cased or not, on public transport or in the street. Nobody got scared because you knew the bloke was just going up the bush to go shooting. I can remember being about ten or so and very proudly walking up to the gun store about half a mile away taking my old man's rifle for repair. Nobody thought anything of it. At the same time the cops weren't armed at all, let alone carrying visible weapons, except on special permission from a superior.<br /><br />The situation now is completely reversed. People see a civilian with a gun and there's panic, and rightly so in a lot of cases. Now our cops have exposed pistols and OC spray and extendable batons and soon tasers on their belts, just like the US. They also have adopted US training which is much more aggressive than what we used to have. Shootings by police have been out of control in my state for several periods over the last 15 years. A lot of it is attributable to some outrageous murders of police, which in turn were attributable to what some people say were pretty much executions of criminals by police. Whatever the cause, it's clear that arming police and training them to make sure it's not them that gets hurt has resulted in a far, far higher rate of shootings by police and of police than we ever had before. Where years ago an unarmed copper was forced to talk a situation down, now some of them will just shut it down with a bullet. <br /><br />So our kids see this from one of the most powerful authority figures around. They see endless TV shows and movies where producing a gun is the way to control people and shooting them is an effective resolution of any problem. They play endless computer games which give the same message and desensitise them to inflicting harm on others. Then there's blanket publicity every time there's a gun massacre. And then some disturbed kid walks into a school and starts shooting other kids and teachers and people wonder what on earth could have given the kid the idea? <br /><br />Meanwhile the wowsers get all wound up about sex in movies etc, which has yet to result in one recorded instance of anyone being inspired to root someone else to death, although I'm prepared to volunteer as the first person to attempt the offence. <br /><br />I think that ultimately the gun issue is less about gun control than instilling responsible attitudes to guns and conflict resolution and a whole range of other issues about attitudes and conduct. Maybe then we could go back to my childhood when the police weren't armed and people could carry a firearm without causing panic and nobody here had ever heard of a firearm massacre. But as long as "entertainment" keeps pumping out the "shooting solves problems" message and a tiny number of people with access to guns do profound harm to others with guns, gun control will have to do for those of us, in any country, who aren't comfortable with the prospect of loonies getting their hands on guns.
 

demsvmejm

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Re: Legislators Weigh Changes To Gun Laws

I see we have another chest-thumping thread by the Neanderthals that need to act as throw-backs to a less intelligent age of needing firearms to feel safe. When a gun is kept in the home, the statistics show that a friend or family member is many times more likely to be shot and/or killed than an intruder, armed or not. <br />I have four excellent reasons to not have a gun in the home, wife, and three kids. We just had an eight YO shot in the eye on the news this week. Guess where the gun came from? Yep in the home.<br />If you're on the street and a thug approaches and tries to mug you, what do you think is gonna happen if you make a motion like you're going for a gun? You're gonna get shot. Does this make you safer? Will the thug fear you because you might have a gun? Not likely, the thug already has theirs drawn, aimed and finger on the trigger. You have to draw, aim and pull the trigger in the time they have to react and pull the trigger. Throughout recent history, in no time period has gun related crime/accidents sustained a reduction when gun availability was increased or relaxed. <br />But the No Responsibilites Accepted doesn't want to acknowledge that. What this all comes down to is a bunch of guys feeling the need to compensate, and feeling the oppression of the government control over guns as emasculating. Just like the motorcyclists here in Michigan fighting to be allowed to be stupid and ride without helmets. I have a bike too, and wear a full faced SNELL approved helmet. I've taken a safety course, hold a Commercial Driver's license, and am qualified to speak on that subject too.<br /><br />Wake up America, we all have a greater RESPONSIBILITY to society as a whole to be civilized. If our society lived up to this responsibility and not to our self-gratification, we'd never have the fear for the need of a gun.<br /><br />I would vigorously fight a ban on firearms, but I won't embrace stupidity in the name of the Constitution, and that's largely what the nra has come down to.
 

theriver

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Re: Legislators Weigh Changes To Gun Laws

the NRA = the Small P3NIS Association
 

ae708

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Re: Legislators Weigh Changes To Gun Laws

Maybe we should outlaw cars as they kill thousands of people each year...much more dangerous that guns. But I surely won't be one of the 'sheeple' who are happy to let some hoodlum rob me or rape or kill my wife and daughters. For every "bad" gun story that people expound on there are many more "good" stories. My wife had the Top Cop (head of SLED..SC Law Enforcement Dept)in one of her classes last year and he was telling me that he supports CWP for law abiding citizens. And I also read that there have been no licensed firearm carriers here that have been involved in gun crimes. If a criminal wants a gun he'll get a gun. Look at New York City's crime rate. They have one of the most agressive "no gun" laws in the nation.
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
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Re: Legislators Weigh Changes To Gun Laws

Maybe we should outlaw cars as they kill thousands of people each year...
Kill more people? Absolutely! <br /><br />But that argument holds as much water as a bottomless bucket!<br /><br />Cars were designed primarily as a mode of transport, their ability to kill is a bi-product of stupidity behind a glass and the wheel. <br /><br />Guns were designed to kill and main, nothing else. They were made to kill people and animals. An instrument of destruction and death. <br /><br />Alcohol-related car deaths have decreased since the introduction of tougher laws. Why are law-makers going the other way with guns? Do you also think that because people drink and drive that the laws should be relaxed so that these idiots can do it without breaking the law? <br /><br />It appears to me that the law-makers have admitted defeat with the gun problem. Adopting a policy of "If we can't control the problem, let's change the law to be able to say 'we don't have a problem'" In my vocabulary that's called re-active policy. Time to start thinking pro-actively.<br /><br />Chris............<br /><br />P.S. First thing to do to be pro-active, shutdown the NRA and that insensitive idiot heston.
 

Stratosfied

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Re: Legislators Weigh Changes To Gun Laws

I am amazed at this thread. One thing I, and many others need to keep in mind is that, without the 2nd Admendment, we would not be citizens, but SUBJECTS.
 

ae708

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Re: Legislators Weigh Changes To Gun Laws

We were subjects once .. remember. England. We got out from under that rather nicely. This gun subject is something that will never be solved here. I just wonder what the anti's will do if their home is ever invaded and they have to watch their wives, daughters, mothers get raped and killed. Oh, I know... fight back with good intentions. Tell the bad guy they can't do that because we are against guns and they shouldn't harm us. This is the last I'll say on the subject. Hopefully the anti's won't ever need defending. If they do hopefully someone with a gun will save their bacon.
 

dogsdad

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Re: Legislators Weigh Changes To Gun Laws

When some crackhead cretin breaks into your home and is threatening your family with a weapon of some kind, just dial 911 and shrug. And then when the courts say you cannot sue the police for not arriving in time to protect your deceased family, you will learn that you and you alone are responsible for protecting yourself. Shrug once again.<br /><br />Those who believe it's government's job to clothe them, feed them, and protect them (these ideas are all a part of the same mindset) from cradle to grave are pathetic excuses for human beings. <br /><br />How did they ever become convinced they are no more than livestock? And how did that become the "enlightened" frame of mind??<br /><br /><br />-dd-
 

demsvmejm

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Re: Legislators Weigh Changes To Gun Laws

Originally posted by ae708:<br /> Maybe we should outlaw cars as they kill thousands of people each year...
This may be so...<br />But automobiles and their use are regulated many times more than firearms.<br />I am not saying that we should not be allowed to have guns, just that there has to be some common sense used with them. Most of the battle against gun regulation is by people with no interest in acting responsibly. Trigger locks, whereas they could save innocent lives, they are an encumbrance when used in the “intruder defense” situation. Guns and clips being stored separately would save innocent lives too, but again they are counter-productive to self-protection. When I disrespect the national organization against gun control by calling it the No Responsibilities Accepted, it’s because their psycho-babble is exactly that. No responsibility to anyone, for any actions committed with a gun. Until gun owners want to take some responsibility and act intelligently an dwith common sense, there will continue to be a debate, and our “civilized” society will end either in a bloodbath of irresponsible gun ownership, or in tyrannical rule over subjects.<br /><br />I think it is very simple. It’s a case of “Grow up and accept responsibility for your actions” or have the government impose restrictions on you to protect the innocent from you. After all gun control is more about control than it is about guns. And like my aunt says gun control means using both hands. The prophecy in both these clichés will be lost on the NRA members/sympathizers, but crystal clear to the rest of us.
 

achris

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Re: Legislators Weigh Changes To Gun Laws

One thing I, and many others need to keep in mind is that, without the 2nd Admendment, we would not be citizens, but SUBJECTS.
Total BS! The 2nd amendment is what has driven your citizens into fearful subjects. You are all subject to the law of the gun! Now that you are allowed to carry concealed weapons, do you walk down the street without a thought of fear of another person? I doubt it! Every person you pass is your potential killer. Why? Because he may dislike the way you walk! You talk about crazy... What's crazy is to give a fearful population complete access to guns, concealed or otherwise. And what made them fearful in the first place? The fact that if other people have a gun, I should have one too. WHERE WILL IT END? I wonder who'll be the first in your street to own a bazooka? Then who will buy a tank to combat that.....<br /><br />We are not subjects, we are citizens, far more free than you will ever be! We do not fear our neighbours. Our judges can sit comfortably in their court rooms without fear that someone will have a shot at them. Our army, navy and airforce can rest easy in the knowledge that an armed population isn't going to shoot them in the back IF the need ever rose that they are called to protect our freedom. And rest assured we have freedom! I have freedom, from fear of every person who walks past my house. I know that when I answer a knock on the door I am not going to be confronted by a gun. Our police don't think that everytime they stop a vehicle, it could be their last. We send our children to school, knowing that they WILL come home that night. <br /><br />Alas we don't have the manufacturing industry to support the gun crazy mentality of the hestons of this world. I guess we miss out on that industry to prop up our economy. The undertakes also are missing out, and the trauma counsellors. The hospital services and medical staff are missing out on some excellent opportunities to learn about dealing with gunshot wounds and the supermarkets and hardware shops also loss the income from the sale of these weapons. <br /><br />Violence begets violence. <br /><br />I am not against the use of force when needed, but this culture of deadlist weapon is sheer stupidity!<br /><br />Chris...........
 

Kenneth Brown

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Re: Legislators Weigh Changes To Gun Laws

I guess everythimg in Australia really is bassackwards. :) Its amazing that the USA was founded by people wanting to be free, and yours was founded as a penal colony, essentially a giant prison. <br /><br /><br />I ain't trashing ya achris, or any other Ausie. You are very adament about your position, and I am mine. I don't see either of us changing our minds anytime soon. Have a good day mate.
 

ae708

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Re: Legislators Weigh Changes To Gun Laws

Ok.. I had to say something else. So achris you don't like our gun laws. Ok fine... they are OUR gun laws. Just stay in Australia and keep out of American affairs and we'll all be happy. <br /><br />Well said Ken. My wife is an Aussie and she agrees with you and me about all this. She is working on becoming an AMERICAN citizen just as quick as she can. She says that you couldn't pay her to live there again. She loves America and it's laws.
 

achris

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Re: Legislators Weigh Changes To Gun Laws

essentially a giant prison.
Close, but not quite true. For every prisoner who was sent, 3 free settlers came of their own free will. <br /><br />Thanks Ken, Art and all the rest of you guys. Been a great discussion.... :D <br /><br />Chris...........<br /><br />P.S. I'll keep out of your gun laws, but promise me you'll keep those crazy yanks out of our kangaroo culling policies.
 

ae708

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Re: Legislators Weigh Changes To Gun Laws

This is Mrs. ae708. I just read a few of the posts on here and wanted to say a couple of things. I was raised in Australia. To say one can walk free and not in fear, anywhere, is not true. There are gun crimes everywhere. To say that America exports its violent movies, TV shows etc and tries to influence people to be blood-thirsty cave-men is rather an uneducated statement. Just choose NOT watch the movies or TV shows that you consider too violent. I know people in the USA who don't even own a TV set. You do have a choice you know. As for my feelings on America... I lived in Greece for many years. The public generally had the view that America is a violent bully of a country who was trying to "Tell everybody what they should do" and be the big boss. This was all fed to the people through the press who ate it up, telling themselves they were all so much better than those bad Americans. THEY were a peace-loving people. But you know what? Whenever their neighboring Turkey raised its head and made some sort of threat.. do you know what all the papers said?? "What does the Pentagon say?" "Will America be on our side and PROTECT us??" Talk about Hypocrisy. I lived through it. I am not talking about something I have no idea about. I have lived in a country constantly under threat from another, and I can tell you that Americans are much better off being a strong nation of people who aren't afraid to protect themselves and the rest of the world. I choose to live in America.. land of the free.. home of the brave. Sounds corny, I know.. but hey.. it's true.
 

sue5878

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Re: Legislators Weigh Changes To Gun Laws

I live in Australia and am proud of it. Wife is a Kiwi and I'm proud of that too. Been to America and loved it. Thing is I have a vote in Australia and can potentialy change things here. Can't do much about changing America.<br /><br />I know a little about what Kenneth does and have seen the effects of firearms when in the hands of "the wrong person", although I've seen positives when in the hands of the right person.<br /><br />End result my opinion counts for nothing.<br /><br />Keep smiling, Neil
 

Boomyal

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Re: Legislators Weigh Changes To Gun Laws

Originally posted by achris:<br />P.S. I'll keep out of your gun laws, but promise me you'll keep those crazy yanks out of our kangaroo culling policies. [/QB]
Point em out Chris, I'll shoot the sob's. ;) <br /><br />I see you've been extra busy in my absence. :p
 

Boomyal

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Re: Legislators Weigh Changes To Gun Laws

Originally posted by ae708:<br /> This is Mrs. ae708. I just read a few of the posts on here and wanted to say a couple of things. I was raised in Australia. To say one can walk free and not in fear, anywhere, is not true. There are gun crimes everywhere. To say that America exports its violent movies, TV shows etc and tries to influence people to be blood-thirsty cave-men is rather an uneducated statement. Just choose NOT watch the movies or TV shows that you consider too violent. I know people in the USA who don't even own a TV set. You do have a choice you know. As for my feelings on America... I lived in Greece for many years. The public generally had the view that America is a violent bully of a country who was trying to "Tell everybody what they should do" and be the big boss. This was all fed to the people through the press who ate it up, telling themselves they were all so much better than those bad Americans. THEY were a peace-loving people. But you know what? Whenever their neighboring Turkey raised its head and made some sort of threat.. do you know what all the papers said?? "What does the Pentagon say?" "Will America be on our side and PROTECT us??" Talk about Hypocrisy. I lived through it. I am not talking about something I have no idea about. I have lived in a country constantly under threat from another, and I can tell you that Americans are much better off being a strong nation of people who aren't afraid to protect themselves and the rest of the world. I choose to live in America.. land of the free.. home of the brave. Sounds corny, I know.. but hey.. it's true.
Let em have it Mrs. ae708. I think our Cousins Downunder have let too much sun get to them. :cool:
 
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