Legislators Weigh Changes To Gun Laws

[Kenneth Brown]

6:07 pm PST, 11 April 2005 <br /><br />Now that nearly all states allow some form of concealed carry of guns, legislators are turning their attention to the next part of the debate - whether, or how much, to loosen existing rules.<br /><br />Recent shootings, for example, have sparked nearly the opposite reaction from groups and legislators as previous shootings, such as the Columbine High School killings in 1999. Then, protestors marched in Washington, D.C., and demanded stricter laws.<br /><br />Now, however, the focus appears to be more on how access to guns can be broadened, and how to loosen training requirements and other rules.<br /><br />"Where do you stand on self-defense?" said New Mexico state Rep. Thomas Anderson, a Republican who said local judges asked him to change the law to let judges carry weapons into their court chambers. <br /><br />"I believe in it," he added, in an interview with The Associated Press.<br /><br />New Mexico has already broadened its concealed weapons law this year, dropping the age requirement from 25 to 21, and allowing the state to make agreements with other states, so its license holders can carry concealed across borders without worry.<br /><br />"The country as a whole is taking another look, across the board, at the idea that maybe it makes good sense to allow people to protect themselves in as many situations as possible," Wayne LaPierre, chief executive of the National Rifle Association, told AP.

 

[Link]

Re: Legislators Weigh Changes To Gun Laws

Good question Ken.<br />Where do you stand? <br /><br />As for myself I dont have a CWP but have thought of it. When I used to make night deposits when closing up we had solid glass across the front incuding the door. I would always make sure anyone in the parking lot could see I was armed!<br /><br />Same thing when making the deposit. Weapon on dash above steering wheel, used only left and to open box and to make drop.<br /><br />Two years ago I needed to pick up Mrs.Link from the park N ride. Got there a little early and there were 5 guys with the hood up all looking and milling around. (oldest trick in the book to get someone to give them a jump and get them out of the vehicle)<br />When one of them came towards me I waited until he was about 10 feet from the van and I just stared at him and reached down like I was getting a weapon. He stopped in stride threw up his hands like No Problem, turned around and went back to the car.<br />Funny how it started right up and they were gone in about 30 seconds. <br /><br />Two weeks ago on a Friday night 10pm I went out for coffee and pulled into the parking lot (seedy area of town) This guy around 250+ lbs stared into the passenger window just daring me to get out. We are talking plastered his face against the window.<br />Being a ham I just looked back at him and picked up my radio mic and made a call to a friend.. he must have thought I was a under cover cop and took off at a run..<br /><br />So yes Im thinking of a CWP.. <br />now what are your thoughts Ken?

 

[BoatBuoy]

Re: Legislators Weigh Changes To Gun Laws

Reminds me of something Bill Maher said one time. I forget the exact quote but it went something like - Terrorists carrying box cutters? The best way to stop terrorists in the air is to issue handguns to every passenger as they board.

 

[ae708]

Re: Legislators Weigh Changes To Gun Laws

I have a CWP and several guns. I carry most of the time unless I know that I'm going somewhere that concealed weapons are prohibited. But then again, sometimes I even carry in some of those places. You hope that you NEVER have to use your weapon but you need to be ready in case you do. As for carrying where prohibited... as the man said, "it's better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6." And if it's properly concealed then who knows that you are carrying anyway?

 

[achris]

Re: Legislators Weigh Changes To Gun Laws

Congratulations America!<br /><br />You have just managed to do what nobody else in the histroy of mankind has done. You have traveleled back in time. 200 years no less! The scenarios I see here are exactly as they were in the Wild West, 200 years ago. Next you'll all be carrying swords and bows and arrows. <br /><br />What next, camping in caves and proclaiming to be the inventor of fire?<br /><br />Think about what is happening here. Your society is becoming more violent, not less. And will get even worse. Less training, younger age. How is it going to end? Will nursing staff be issuing guns to newborns in a few years time? Then you'll be facing so many more Columbines, and it will be too late.<br /><br />Chris......

 

[ae708]

Re: Legislators Weigh Changes To Gun Laws

As the saying goes... "If guns are outlawed then only the outlaws will have guns." Criminals will always find a way to get guns to use against law abiding folks. I for one will use my guns to protect my family against any one who tries to harm them. Thank God that I DO live in America where that's possible.

 

[achris]

Re: Legislators Weigh Changes To Gun Laws

Edit : Double post.

 

[Laddies]

Re: Legislators Weigh Changes To Gun Laws

I did not know the Australians were so happy to be disarmed, but then I think every thing down there is upside down to us any way---Bob<br /> God created man Colonel Colt made us equal

 

[Kenneth Brown]

Re: Legislators Weigh Changes To Gun Laws

As a person and as a COP I think its great. I would much rather have folks armed than unarmed. Sure it makes my job a little more dangerous but its worth it. Crooks will think twice before robbing an ARMED citizen.

 

[Fly Rod]

Re: Legislators Weigh Changes To Gun Laws

Achris!!<br /> From what I hear, crime down under has climbed dramatically since they took your guns away a few years ago!!!<br /><br />Here in Mass. we do not need a concealed weapons license!!! When a person applies for a pistol permit and the State police do a back round check and everything is in order and you receive your pistol permit, you can automatically carry concealed!!! <br /><br />If everybody was armed, we would all be equal!!!!

 

[snapperbait]

Re: Legislators Weigh Changes To Gun Laws

If a gun makes ya feel better, fine.. Carry it.. <br /><br /> Don't really matter, IMHO.. Most of the "joe-publics" I seen could'nt hit the broad side of the barn at 10 feet, let alone a moving target, especially when they're flat out rattled and peeing their pants cause some thug just got the drop on em'...

 

[Kenneth Brown]

Re: Legislators Weigh Changes To Gun Laws

The criminal doesn't know if its joe public or a closet dirty harry though, thats the good part.

 

[Tinkerer]

Re: Legislators Weigh Changes To Gun Laws

Time to correct some often repeated misconceptions on gun laws and crime rates down under.<br /><br />Contrary to ill-informed statements or outright lying propaganda put out by various pro-gun lobbies here and elsewhere, we still have plenty of guns; the crime rate is going down if anything; and use of firearms in crime (except by the police and criminals in my state who are both trigger happy)is definitely going down since stricter firearm controls were introduced nearly a decade ago following some appalling massacres by firearm. <br /><br />There are shooter and gun licensing requirements here which generally limit ordinary shooters to single-shot or repeating rim-fire and centre fire long arms, including shotguns. <br /><br />I hold those licences. I've been licensed for the past 35 years as we used to need licences for high-powered weapons even in the days when we could buy .22's and shotguns over the counter with no licensing requirements. I don't keep guns any more but I can buy one any time I feel like it after a routine application to police. <br /><br />There are requirements for secure gun storage. That's cut down the kids who kill other kids showing them how dad's unloaded gun works.<br /><br />We generally can't have semi-automatic long arms.<br /><br />The current position has no impact on me or any other genuine sporting shooter. Semi and fully automatic weapons are unnecessary for shooting game. <br /><br />Short arm licences are very hard to get here unless you're in a pistol club or a special category like police or security guards. We don't have the same tradition of handguns as in the US.<br /> <br />The present position is what the police around the country wanted, not least because they were going to be on the wrong end of the guns they wanted controlled or removed. <br /><br />The only people who object to these changes are a minority who want to own and use weapons which have no place in sporting shooting or who object on principle to government regulation of what they want to do. <br /><br />Contrary to assertions from gun lobbies about how "disarming" us has produced an explosion in crime, here are some extracts from the Australian (Government) Bureau of Statistics for the latest figures available on the internet at<br /><br /> http://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/abs@.nsf/0/E0F9C3859A740CDFCA256F7200833027?Open <br /><br />1. " For robberies that involved a weapon, the proportion involving a firearm decreased from 36% in 1994 to 15% in 2003. A firearm was involved in 20% of attempted murders, 13% of murders and 6% of robberies. Firearm use in murders peaked at 32% in 1996, but has since declined steadily to 13% in 2003 which is the lowest level on record. For attempted murders in 2003, a firearm was used in 20% of offences, marginally above its low of 19% in 1998 and well below its high of 32% in 1999 (graph 11.13)."<br /><br />2. "Overall the number of victims recorded by police declined in most offence categories in 2003 when compared with the number reported 2002. This was particularly the case for offences involving the taking of property. Motor vehicle theft decreased by 13% and unlawful entry with intent decreased by 10%. Victims of robbery fell by 6% with armed robbery falling by 9% and unarmed robbery by 5%. Other offence categories to record a decrease included other theft (6%), homicide and related offences (4%) and assault (1%)."

 

[Tinkerer]

Re: Legislators Weigh Changes To Gun Laws

Originally posted by Fly Rod:<br /> <br />If everybody was armed, we would all be equal!!!!

I doubt it.<br /><br />It's one thing to point a gun at someone; it's another to imagine shooting someone in whatever situation you like; but it's a very different thing to actually do it.<br /><br />"Ardant du Picq's surveys of French officers in the 1860s and his observations about ancient battles (Battle Studies, 1946), John Keegan and Richard Holmes' numerous accounts of ineffectual firing throughout history (Soldiers, 1985), Holmes' assessment of Argentine firing rates in the Falklands War (Acts of War, 1985), Paddy Griffith's data on the extraordinarily low firing rate among Napoleonic and American *Civil War regiments (Battle Tactics of the American Civil War, 1989), the British army's laser reenactments of historical battles, the FBI's studies of nonfiring rates among law enforcement officers in the 1950s and 1960s, and countless other individual and anecdotal observations, all confirm Marshall's fundamental conclusion that human beings are not, by nature, killers."<br /><br /> http://futurepositive.synearth.net/2005/02/19

 

[Stratosfied]

Re: Legislators Weigh Changes To Gun Laws

Contrary to what the world, and The United States Supreme Court thinks, Americans, thanks to the US Constition and the Bill of Rights, DO NOT have to answer to international law or their public opinion.<br /><br />Ps I do carry and can hit a soda can at 100 yrds with my 9mm..

 

[achris]

Re: Legislators Weigh Changes To Gun Laws

Ps I do carry and can hit a soda can at 100 yrds with my 9mm..

All well and good. But can you tell the difference between a thug trying to break into somewhere and an undercover cop, in the dark? <br /><br />Didn't think so. <br /><br />Americans kill 12,000 Americans with guns each and every year, and it's growing. When do you say 'Enough is enough.' This is so far out of control! The problem is not going away by making guns law more relaxed, it's making it worse! <br /><br />Grow up and stop playing cowboys and indians. These are not games you're playing with those AKs and 'peacemakers' (is that a contradiction of terms!!!!). You won't wake up the next morning and everybody is alive to play again. How many more school kids have to die before you wake up?<br /><br />

Americans, thanks to the US Constition and the Bill of Rights, DO NOT have to answer to international law or their public opinion.<br />

but expect the rest of the world to answer to them!

 

[ae708]

Re: Legislators Weigh Changes To Gun Laws

achris.. I would not be shooting someone "trying to break in somewhere". I would just call 911 on my cell phone and report it. On the other hand... if that someone is breaking into MY house, thug or undercover cop, he's gonna get shot with either a 12 gauge shotgun, a 9mm, or a .45... whichever one I can reach first. My thoughts are that if you are happy with the gun controls in Australia good for you. Otherwise leave America alone and let us live our own lives. I think that's why we had our revolutionary war.. to get away from the control of kings and queens.

 

[Fly Rod]

Re: Legislators Weigh Changes To Gun Laws

Thanks for the corrections !!!! And you are right about pointing and follwing through with the discharge!!!!!<br /><br />Luckily I wasn't carrying in N.Y.City when the wife and I were riding the subway back from seeing the Statue of Liberty, I'd probably be in prison!!! Had to take out a pick pocketer and if I had my weapon I probably would have shot him!!!!<br /><br />Haven't they taken away your right to carry high powered firearms????<br /><br />In Massachusetts one rule is that when you are transporting rifles and shotguns they do need trigger locks!!!!

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Legislators Weigh Changes To Gun Laws

the concern I have with the right to carry is most are not educated enough nor recieve enough refresher training on the rules of use of deadly force. in the case of the unarmed pick pocket or the purse snatch and grab, if you pop them,regardless of the fact your doing society a favor, odds are it will result in a voluntary manslaughter charge. the instructors when we did our use of deadly force trainig kept hammering that in the use of deadly force situation you will have less than 2 seconds to react and the investigation later may drag out for months. so if you do carry try to find a trainig facility, preferably with a shoot back simulator, and keep refreshed on the rules of deadly force. may save some prison time and costly attorney feess later.

 

[Tinkerer]

Re: Legislators Weigh Changes To Gun Laws

Originally posted by flyrod:<br />[QB] <br /><br />

Haven't they taken away your right to carry high powered firearms????

No, we can still have centrefires in pretty much any calibre we like, although I don't know if laws vary between the states. I think there's a prohibition on fully jacketed projectiles. <br /><br />One of the concerns that led to the changes was with semi automatic weapons (I don't think fully automatic civilian firearms have ever been legal here), because of their high rate of fire compared with repeaters. This in turn arose from some real nasty firearm massacres here about ten years ago, one of about 35 total strangers including very young children, all done by people who psychiatrists assure us aren't insane!<br /><br />

Luckily I wasn't carrying in N.Y.City when the wife and I were riding the subway back from seeing the Statue of Liberty, I'd probably be in prison!!! Had to take out a pick pocketer and if I had my weapon I probably would have shot him!!!!<br />

About 35 years ago I apprehended a prowler at night in my back yard. I'd heard noises and went out with a torch and a fully loaded hammer action .22 magnum / .410 over and under, .410 selected, safety off. I was going to use it if I had to. I searched the yard and the only place he could be was in an alcove at the end of a narrow path, where he could get me as I emerged. I crept down with the torch off and leapt off the path into a garden away from the alcove, pointing the cocked gun into the alcove and turning the torch on. I don't know who got a bigger fright as I'm not sure I really expected for find someone. Anyway, I shone the torch on the gun and told him it was loaded and I'd shoot him if he approached me, then marched him out ahead of me. I don't know why but I had a feeling he was going to try to fight, so I quietly unloaded the break action gun while walking behind him as I didn't want to get shot or shoot an unarmed man, and I figured I could control him physically. Sure enough he had a go at me and tried to get the gun off me, but I butt stroked him and that quietened him down until the police arrived.<br /><br />What worries me about that event is that I could just as easily have shot him in fright or by accident when leaping into the garden, or either of us could have been shot in the struggle if I hadn't unloaded the weapon. If I'd killed him, I'd probably have spent five to ten years in gaol for manslaughter. I'd also have killed a disturbed wretch who wasn't much of a threat to anyone except himself.<br /><br />I've been in a few situations where I was rightly sh!t scared and would justifiably have killed someone else if I'd had a gun, like being trapped in a room with a drug and alcohol affected bloke armed with a knife who was, to put it mildy, very upset with the world and taking it out on me. In the end I didn't get hurt in any of those situations (although I ruined a few pairs of jocks) and neither did anyone else. These sorts of situations occur countless times every year and very rarely end in serious injury or death, although they often would if a gun was available to either party. So I think we're better off not having ready access to guns to resolve situations which in most cases will turn out alright, or usually at worst with survivable wounds, without recourse to guns.