LED Bulb trips breaker

[alldodge]

.The WS PS is just a little wall transformer, right?

Yes, same as the one running the basement fire place
So far has not tripped

 

[Brando33]

Just a statement regarding LEDs. Hi inrush current on startup and most fail to short circuit not open like all other types of bulbs

 

[flashback]

Maybe replace the breaker, they do go bad.

 

[alldodge]

Have done that, post 11 and 12

 

[bigdee]

My money is still on the wiring(or wiring within a outlet)........The WS PS is just a little wall transformer, right?

I agree. There may be something unnoticed tied into that circuit,e.i. doorbell transformer, heat tape etc. I would check the amp load on that circuit with every known device turned off.

 

[alldodge]

I agree. There may be something unnoticed tied into that circuit,e.i. doorbell transformer, heat tape etc. I would check the amp load on that circuit with every known device turned off.

Tried that, went out to the shop and got my clamp meter and it wasn't working, hadn't been used in many years. Open it up and battery leaked and damaged it. Might get another for one time use

 

[alldodge]

Turned other side of the 3-2 breaker off and think I found every outlet. Check those and found nothing really bad. Did find one which didn't have a ground wire, so the common was jumpered to it, and no ground wire in the metal box.

Had the power on all day and night yesterday and no trip. Just turned the switch going to the fan on but did not not turn the fan on

 

[sam am I]

I bought one of these the other month...........Seems to work okay, not sure I'll ever use it, but I got one just in case....lol

Klein Tools Digital Circuit Breaker Finder ET300 - The Home Depot

Do all your odd jobs easily with the help of this brilliant Klein Tools Digital Circuit Breaker Finder. Auto power-off feature saves battery life.

www.homedepot.com

 

[alldodge]

Circuit tracer, never used one but should make finding everything connected easier i guess

 

[bigdee]

Tried that, went out to the shop and got my clamp meter and it wasn't working, hadn't been used in many years. Open it up and battery leaked and damaged it. Might get another for one time use

You can remove wire from breaker and series it through a low wattage light bulb (incandescent) and back to breaker. With everything off the bulb should not be on.

 

[sam am I]

You can remove wire from breaker and series it through a low wattage light bulb (incandescent) and back to breaker. With everything off the bulb should not be on.

Oooo, the ole test lamp, home style that is!!!............With a short(or high current load), she'll be bright bright and with a load equal to same wattage as the bulb, it'll be half bright.

Those small wall transformers are maybe 250mA, so 30 Watt say and a 60 Watt test bulb should be dim'ish.

Could be a good indication of whats out there and waht maybe happens if'n you're watching the bulb when the breaker goes off.........

 

[alldodge]

I have 2 other voltmeters with up to 10 amp max.

The unit didn't trip (fan off switch on), so I turned the fan on and will see if it trips this 24 hours.

The PS on the basement FP is what I made from my old Palm device. It has 2 outputs, 6V and I forget the other. Being old should mean made better the the junk ya get today

 

[CaptnKingfisher]

I'm on my first year as an electricians apprentice but I can tell you what we would do if I got sent to this job
1. Open up panel. Use clamp on ampmeter on the black wire coming off the suspect breaker.
2. Have helper walk around the house turning stuff on that is on that circuit while I monitor the reading on the ampmeter. Ask homeowner "what things stop working when the breaker trips?" Turn on all these things
3. If breaker won't trip and amps reading is less than still less than expected for a trip start turning on things that "aren't on the same circuit".. look specifically for devices that have high amp draw like heaters, air conditioners or the the like. Just start turning things on and monitoring amp draw. (Usually this is where things trip and I observe amps exceeding breaker and can tell homeowner which device is doing it)
4. Feel for heat at the panel. Heat will derate breakers.. a 20 amp breaker may trip at 15 amps if the panel is putting out a lot of heat.

If breaker trips and amps are not excessive, then replace breaker. Tell the homeowner it's likely a bad breaker but if it happens again call us back and we'll come start taking apart all the devices in the circuit looking for a short.

Another idea I just had is after the breaker trips you could try testing for continuity at the panel between the neutral/ground bus and the black wire going into the panel. This will tell you if you have an active short. Won't help you if the short was intermittent.

If none of this works you just gotta start taking things apart. I'd start with outlets. You already replaced the fan to no avail. If they used the stab-ins on the back of the outlets those are prone to fall out over time and use. Inspect all outlets and wires for damage.

I hope this helps. I hate running around taking apart everything to search for something like this. Another tip I have for that is use a plug in outlet tester, and before taking things apart stick it in each outlet and jiggle it around. With it plugged in you'll have some leverage to gently shake the outlet. Do that too each outlet and if youre lucky one of em will trip the breaker and you'll know which outlet to replace or repair. .
Good luck looking forward to hearing the resolution

 

[alldodge]

Been about a day and a half and fan continues to run. Only thing that is different is I wrapped electrical tape around the side screws on the outlets in the metal boxes. They should have had that before and don't know why they didn't. That said there isn't any way the screws would contact the sides once screwed in place

Starting to wonder if maybe one of the old receptacles developed an internal problem, and maybe the tape is helping with that. Still plan to get a clamp meter but might be a few days or so.

 

[sam am I]

I wrapped electrical tape around the side screws on the outlets in the metal boxes.

You then jarred things around by unscrewing and putting thing back together?

That said there isn't any way the screws would contact the sides once screwed in place

So my guess would be that maybe in the process of moving/jimmying things around while taping screws off, it bumped/jarred something just enough that it isn't shorting now..........a hot was bumping up to either a neutral(white wire) or earth (metal box/bare copper) where some insulation is worn thin(or nicked) in a tiny tiny spot somewheres.....

 

[alldodge]

You then jarred things around by unscrewing and putting thing back together?


So my guess would be that maybe in the process of moving/jimmying things around while taping screws off, it bumped/jarred something just enough that it isn't shorting now..........a hot was bumping up to either a neutral(white wire) or earth (metal box/bare copper) where some insulation is worn thin(or nicked) in a tiny tiny spot somewheres.....

Maybe, I've removed all the outlets before looking for problems, checking connections

It is weird that it was only tripping when the fan was connected (on or off), then the next time it was something else. Never liked metal boxes because they were always to small IMO. Might just get some plastic boxes and replace them

 

[bigdee]

If the receptacles were the problem it would be very obvious when you removed them. There would be definite burn marks e.g. the look and sniff test.

 

[alldodge]

Agree, but nothing else is showing anything, so it's still chasing a ghost

 

[tpenfield]

My only thought is that the LED bulb is initially placing a high capacitive load (ie looking like a capacitor) when first being powered and the circuit breaker is seeing that as an overload.

Is this a GFI breaker? Have you tried a 'slow' CB ( ie a time delay CB) ?

 

[alldodge]

No GFCI and its not the LED as I originally thought, just everything I was watching lead me in that direction. After total disconnect it still tripped later.

Hope I don't have to just rip the basement ceiling out and run new wires