LED Bulb trips breaker

[alldodge]

Short story is the title, here is the long one

Had this problem show up around July 2020. A 20 breaker trips ever once in a while. Breaker has 5 outlets and 2 ceiling fans (living room and other on the deck). Things plugged in are Roku stick, lamp (hardly ever used), 2 LED deck lights, 2 - 6V power supply for 2 different propane gas logs

The breaker blew and I trace the circuit and start unplugging things. Never thought to unplug the lamp because its turned off. Came down to I was sure it was the living room ceiling fan because when it was OFF the breaker didn't trip.

Get another fan Dec 2020, install and all good. Everything good until about 2 weeks ago and here we go again. It was right after a local power outage so thought dang it caused the trouble. Replaced wireless control module in the fan and would almost trip right away.

With the fan turned OFF and only the Roku and lamp were plugged in. Unplugged the lamp because that was the only thing left and then noticed all good. Figure in the beginning the LED was drawing some current but was enough to trip the breaker with the old fan which drew more current. The new fan has a higher efficiency so it took months for the LED bulb to start shorting out. I get 16 meg ohms across the bulb contacts, but there is no load

Gremlin in the Living Room with the Lamp, I needed a better clue

 

[alldodge]

Should add this is a single function LED bulb in a 3-way socket

 

[racerone]

If you get 16 meg ohms on the bulb than the bulb is not the cause of the breaker tripping.-----I say you have too much load on the circuit.----Therefor the breaker trips as it is supposed to.------

 

[alldodge]

Everything has been going just fine since I removed the bulb. Also it was triping the breaker with in 2 seconds after reset and everything else either turned off or disconnected

Get 16 meg using a 9V battery from a meter. The bulb gets 120VAC when plugged in. There is several components inside the bulb the change from AC to DC

 

[Grub54891]

Most led's are 6-12 volt. Learned that a few years back, it gets cut down in the board itself. I've taked some apart and hooked them up directly to 12 volts and they work just fine, without the circuit board.

 

[captmello]

hate to throw parts at the problem, but why not try a different bulb?

 

[alldodge]

hate to throw parts at the problem, but why not try a different bulb?

Your right and I was still puzzled by how the bulb could still do it. Being a 3-way socket and the bulb base being really close to the offset pin was how it maybe could have done it.

Then last night it popped again. Unplug everything and with only the living room ceiling fan connected it did it again. So its back to the 1 year old fan. Going to call Hunter this morning

 

[dingbat]

Have you checked the polarity of the AC circuit?

Strange things can happen in AC/DC converters with the polarity reversed

 

[alldodge]

Have you checked the polarity of the AC circuit?

Strange things can happen in AC/DC converters with the polarity reversed

Yes, several times.
The house was built in 69 and my Dad (union electrician) and I help wire it for my Uncle. This was a time when Federal pacific breakers were ok, and using 12-3 with ground so one common with 2 hots. About 20 years ago I had the breaker panel replaced to Square D.

I added the wiring for the fan shortly after the new panel during remodel

 

[sam am I]

So I wonder if it is just something in the wiring(a hot got nicked loooong time ago and now rubbing a bare earth for example) and NOT anything being plugged in?

Perhaps because it's so random the real problem has you chasing ghosts?

Random due to maybe time/temperature/humidity intermittent for example, might the breaker trip where larger temperature change had occurred? Maybe temp and higher humidity? IDK, but thermal intermittent problems (shorts and opens) can drive you to drink.

Have you unplugged everything yet to see if it still throws the breaker? Probably PIA, but might have to for that route

 

[JASinIL2006]

Have you tried a different breaker, to rule out a defective one?

 

[alldodge]

Defiantly chasing a ghost
A while back I swapped breakers to rule that out

Did find there are 8 outlets on this one feed. Never would have put that many on it, but that said most have nothing plugged into them.

Two of the outlets feed the 2 other outside ceiling fans. They have been OFF for a long time, and there are no switches in line so I disconnected them to see if it still happens. Hope it is one of them

Started thinking it was the Roku power puck because those have shorted out before, but no go on it. Right now nothing is connected except room ceiling fan and 2 outside LED bulbs. Fan and bulbs are ON

 

[alldodge]

I'm saying it LOUD so it might rear its head again if its still there.
I think "again" I got it. It was the second outside fan.

OK I said it, I'm waiting

 

[sam am I]

 

[alldodge]

Dang it just tripped again
Down stairs, turn it back on and it trips again, think great maybe be able to find it. Move over to a 6V PS and remove. PS is not even warm, go back breaker back on and no trip, great. Go plug PS back in and no trip.

Its now been 20 minutes and still has not tripped. Dag Nab Ir

Things plugged in, Roku, 6V PS for gas logs, New weather station PS 12V, and the living room fan, that's it

 

[bwkre]

Time to check all the devices on the circuit, sounds like an issue in the wiring. You stated it is a 3 wire circuit, one neutral and 2 hots, are the hots on opposite phases in the panel? They must be for proper operation, to ensure the neutral only carries the imbalance of the loads. In Canada it is illegal to run a 3 wire circuit for residential wiring, split outlets being the only exception. I assume it is 3 wire to run 2 circuits each having a number of outlets fed from the hots and sharing the neutral. If so , find the device where the 3 wire splits and check all the connections. A simple loss of the neutral can create an imbalance of voltage depending on the loads connected. Best to pull and check all the devices on both circuits. You would be surprised at the number of burnt wire connectors that give out intermittently then work for a while. Especially with aluminum or aluminum and copper combined. A short, especially on a 20A circuit is going to leave a mark and black soot, melted wires, melted screws, etc. But a short usually welds itself together as a permanent short or it blows apart disrupting the circuit till its repaired. If you cant find anything call a professional.

I think you will find that most low voltage power supplies go open when they fault as they have a fuse within them. Shorting then working again is doubtful. Designed to fail safe with no user serviceable parts.

Master Electrician, 40 yrs experience in Canada.

 

[MRS]

Not sure if this will help but had the same trouble in the living room for a year would trip breaker once a week. When we first got the house I changed all the wall plugs and light switches except one it was behind a table and nobody could see it. I also changed the breaker same deal finally thought maybe I should change the only wall plug I did not change when I went to change it out the wires were loose in it and looked like it had been arching for quite awhile fixed my problem.

 

[alldodge]

Yes the the breakers are next to one another and the NEC changed many years ago to do away with 3 wire circuits. Every time the breaker pops I go back around and try to find if there is another circuit I might have missed. Before this started it was at least 15 years of no issues.

Turned the fan off with remote (still on with wall switch) last night so it was just the Roku and PS connected. Got up around 1AM and breaker had been tripped. Turned it back on and flipped wall switch to the fan. Still on the morning

Not sure how the power splits but going to look at a plug not far from the closets one which was out. Might split there

 

[alldodge]

Put PS on extension cord to another breaker

Turned fan on and this afternoon it tripped again, so its the fan/fan control or the split outlet. Have not gotten into the outlet yet. Turn fan off at the wall switch, so only the new weather station PS is connected

 

[sam am I]

My money is still on the wiring(or wiring within a outlet)........The WS PS is just a little wall transformer, right?