Leaky after service

[noclutch]

I recently had the 100 hr service done on my 2007 Regal 2000 @145 hrs with 5.0 GXi-J /SX-A - including outdrive removal and bearing inspection.
Prior to this my bilge has stayed dry unless water was tracked in or rained in. Since the service I had noticed an accumulation of water on two separate outings- the first time about a pint, but this last one maybe a gallon :blue:
I thought I'd read on hear somewhere about a gasket between the out-drive and transom that is not infrequently the culprit of leaking post service, but how other than by having them remove the unit again can one tell if that is the source of leakage?? Is a leak of this sort likely to cause damage to the transom by saturation? Would it be possible for it to progress to a dangerous/significant accumulation if left in the water for several days? :facepalm: I have plans for that sort of excursion next month...
I did feel some water on one of the water pump hoses at it's bottom bend ( impeller was replaced at service also) , but when I tried to twist the hose it seemed well clamped, and I don't know that water could splash up that high from bilge sloshing :cold: Could a leaky pump gasket be intermittent? (it was not obviously leaking at an idle) Could that gasket leak a gallon in 4 hours running time (some at WOT)?

Any other suggested points of water incursion or leakage I can/should look into?? And yes, the drain plug was snug and even with teflon tape on the threads.... Yea, I'm that anal....

It is running fine otherwise, with the exception that the trim position sensor is indeed water sensitive ( as I'd mentioned in another thread) as it works fine when dry but mis-calibrated when in the water, so I'm re-calibrating my head as to what the gauge actually means :facepalm:

Thanks!
Les

 

[skydiveD30571]

Re: Leaky after service

Was that water accumulation on two consecutive outings, or at random?

You're just gonna have to get back there with a flashlight and find where the water is leaking in at. If you keep the boat in storage or otherwise out of the water, you can run it on muffs and atleast check the cooling system for leaks. If you find nothing there, you'll need to dip it in the pond and watch where it comes in at. Make sure it is dry before you do so.

 

[noclutch]

Re: Leaky after service

Thanks sky! The water on the first outing was maybe a pint and I just left it there as it wasn't even enough to run out of the plug hole, and I knew I was going out again soon. The boat is kept in my garage. But yesterdays outing was the one that accumulated the gallon or so. So yea, my plan is to dry it thoroughly and run it in the driveway and hope for a coolant leak that isn't high RPM dependent. If not there, getting back to the transom is going to be an adventure to say the least- I'll have to crawl in through the side bench seat/cooler storage hole like a contortionist!

 

[Don S]

Re: Leaky after service

Pull the drive and check for water in the bellows.
Those bellows should be changed after about 5 years. The drive seals against the bellows to keep water out of the bellows.

 

[noclutch]

Re: Leaky after service

Hey Don- do you have a pic of this so I can wrap my head around it better?
Please excuse my ignorance, but did you mean that the drive seals against the bellows to keep water out of the bilge?

 

[Don S]

Re: Leaky after service

The drive seals water out of the bellows area. Water in the bellow will go through the gimbal bearing and into the bilge.

 

[skydiveD30571]

Re: Leaky after service



When the drive is installed on the transom shield (attaches on the 6 bolts shown), it pushes up against the blue lip in the picture. This seals the bellows area so that no water can get in it. If the bellows is cracked, not sealing properly, or has a hole, water can get in and sit inside there. The drive shaft essentially runs from the engine to the drive through the bellows, so it is an open area. If there is water in the bellows, it can run back into the bilge since there is nothing there to stop it.

 

[noclutch]

Re: Leaky after service

Ugh.:facepalm: Water soaked bearings doesn't sound good either.

So is there a way to check for water in the bellows without removing the drive?

 

[Don S]

Re: Leaky after service

Ugh.:facepalm: Water soaked bearings doesn't sound good either.

So is there a way to check for water in the bellows without removing the drive?

Nope, besides, the drive needs to come off yearly for maintenance. It's not that big a job. disconnect the shift cable, remove the rams, take off the 6 mounting nuts and pull the drive off.

Have a look at item 17 in this link VP.?/ 357328 For the longer version.

 

[noclutch]

Re: Leaky after service

OK so in hoping against hope I ran her on the garden hose today and found no leaking. The sump was dry before and afterwards and no moisture to the touch anywhere. I inspected as best I could the bellows from the outside- the lower one I presume is the exhaust one as it has perforations for drainage. The upper one is all but un-inspectable. The dealer where I had the service done said that taking on dangerous amounts of water due to a leaking drive bellows would be very unlikely but still could allow water ingress, especailly when running in reverse?? ( I did "goose it" it reverse somewhat shake loose some weeds yesterday...) Oddly, the larger of the coolant hoses had that "crunchy" feel to them as regular automotive ones do when they are corroding and need replacing.........:blue:

The only other thing I can think of is the lake I was on was quite rough yesterday and I was pitching up and down more than I can remember in recent years. I had a hard time finding a tolerable speed while on plane- maybe I shook loose some water from up front?? The water in the bilge was quite dirty fwiw- more so than I'd expect with a fresh incursion as the engine compartment was fairly clean prior.

I guess I just need to get out on the water again to tell if this will be a recurrent problem. Thanks for your input, y'all

 

[Don S]

Re: Leaky after service

The bellows isn't underwater when you are on muffs, that's why you pull the drive and check for water in it.

 

[noclutch]

Re: Leaky after service

Don- I realize that. I was trying to confirm that the leak was not from the impeller or hoses. And if I get water back there again I'll know it is from the drive bellows being compromised. But if I were to find a tear or damage to the bellows, would further outdrive dis-assembly be required to replace the bellows?

Can anyone comment on the "crunchy" feeling coolant hoses, particularly the large diameter ones. Is that crunch from rusted metal reinforcement or fiberglass fibers??

 

[skydiveD30571]

Re: Leaky after service

If you find water in the bellows you will have to:

1) Replace the bellows
2) Take a serious look at the u-joints and gimbal bearing as they do not tolerate water too well and many times need replacing
3) Check and most likely drain the gear oil. The seal at the top of the drive where the yoke enters is designed to keep gear lube out of the bellows, not water out of the drive

 

[noclutch]

Re: Leaky after service

Hmm- interesting. So if I were to check the gear oil, which was changed at the service, and found it to be murky/milky, it would be more evidence of a bellows compromise I guess?

As you can see I am avoiding getting in over my head with drive removal myself, though the pictorial and directions Don provided make it seem pretty easy. As soon as bearing and u-joint assessment and possible replacement is involved I'm thinking it may be beyond my skill set/paranoia tolerance level!

 

[skydiveD30571]

Re: Leaky after service

A gear oil check won't necessarily show water intrusion. I had water in my bellows this fall. Gear lube never looked out of the ordinary, and even when I drained it to replace it, it looked fine until the last half-quart or so came out. Then I could tell there was a little water mixed in.

There's not that many places water can seep into a boat near the transom...around the transom shield, the bellows, or the water inlet hose. Being that it doesn't happen while running on muffs, and only recently starting happening right after the drive was removed for service, it does point to the bellows as Don stated. But the only way to find out for sure is to pull the drive. It is as simple as Don's directions stated, I've done it twice myself and am not that mechanically inclined. It can be done without a drive stand but it is recommended to use one because of the awkward weight of the drive.

 

[noclutch]

Re: Leaky after service

Thanks again! It sounds like I just might have to build me a drive stand -someday

 

[noclutch]

Re: Leaky after service

One last question to the leak doctors: the marina where I had the service done prior to the leak said that the first thing they'd do to try and determine the source of the leak would be to back it into the water, leave it on the trailer hooked up and run it in reverse while looking at the inside transom area. Could this actually differentiate from where it is coming? - ie drive bellows vs transom plate vs intake hose??

 

[Don S]

Re: Leaky after service

That's a good test for a rotten transom, on a 2007 boat, I doubt that is a problem yet. But it could be.

I would still pull the outdrive and look first. It's such a minor job.

I pulled drives all the time without a stand, while at work, and I was in my 60's. 10 minutes off, 15 on including checking the alignment, and checking the shift cable adjustment. Everyone thinks pulling a drive is like pulling the transmission out of a car, it's not. Closer to changing a flat tire.

 

[noclutch]

Re: Leaky after service

Don-Wow- that is good to know! So just what does the removed drive weigh anyway? I guess I was envisioning wrestling with and lifting a 200# of a top-heavy or awkwardness that needed to be placed precisely so splines would slide together or gaskets won't get boogered up. Are the alignment tools readily available? And lastly( again, sorry) if the bellows needs replacement, is further dis-assembly or special tool required? to get to both ends of it?

This is starting to sound doable. I am a pretty good shade tree mechanic for autos( minor replacements, mods and most maintenance), motorcycle, bicycles, tractors and implements and even my '89 jet ski is a cake walk, but my boat is completely new territory! It has me freaked out about as bad as some computer programs.... LOL!!

Thanks again!

 

[aerobat]

Re: Leaky after service

So just what does the removed drive weigh anyway?

cannot give you a number on this, but the sx drive can be handled by two people , during reinstalling three people are better where two lift it by hand and one aims to place the shaft correctly.

do not try it alone, you will most probably fail without a lift .


btw- when you had the boat for service at a marina and all was fine before, why do you not call the marina to correct their work ?