Larger than recommended max HP

[MikDee]

Re: Larger than recommended max HP

jkimball,

Have you read the "Venting a prop" threads on this forum, I think it might help you in this situation to get a bit more out of your motor, just search those terms, a lot of good info there.

 

[bilge rat jim]

Re: Larger than recommended max HP

There is certainly lots of input on this subject, and as usual, not all is factual. Let me start by stating that I am 100% in favour of exceeding the recommended hp rating by a REASONABLE increase on almost every hull. The biggest reason- the USCGs method of determining maximum hp is antiquated, and has not kept abreast of technological advancements in hull and engine design. The fiberglass runabout your dad bought in the 70s is not even close to what is offered on the market today, but the method of rating has remained virtually the same. I do not, however, endorse overpowering a boat in a way that dangerous to yourself or others.

To cover some of the contentious points-

- It is only illegal to exceed the hp rating in a few areas, check with your local water-law about this.
- Weight. This is almost a non-issue, as long as your hp increase is reasonable. As an example, a Mercury 175 Opti is only about 60 lbs heavier than the 115 Opti, which just means you might have to pack a bit lighter, and most likely won't damage the hull in any way.
- Insurance. As long as the area you boat in does not have hp restrictions, you will be able to find a policy. Your rates may increase slightly, but if you want to play harder, you gotta pay harder, right?
- Fuel economy/environment. If you regularly run your boat above 3/4 throttle to achieve the performance you desire (most of us do), you are better off with an increase in hp that will allow you run at 2/3 throttle to get the same results. Lower rpms also will increase engine life.
- "Danger". A reasonable increase in hp will not make you or your boat dangerous. Last time I checked, all boat throttles have multiple positions, not just on and off, and sometimes, having "a little bit extra" can get you out of a jam, like being washed down-river when the water is fast.

 

[oldandintheway]

Re: Larger than recommended max HP

Last time i looked the Evinrude e_tecs were the lightest motor HP to weight.

 

[airshot]

Re: Larger than recommended max HP

Well I guess I will throw my two cents in here.....yep that bigger motor will probably work, and if you are somewhat safety minded and behave yourself accordlingly you would probably be fine. Here is where I see a big problem.......you have an accident, nothing bad just some damage to another boat and possibility minor injury to another person. Whether you were at fault or not, the lawyers will have a hayday with this case and you will be the culprit with having knowingly operated an unsafe watercraft. If you have insurance they will probably not cover you as you were operating knowingly an unsafe watercraft. See where this could go?? If you never have an issue then no problem, if there is ever an issue then you have a BIG problem... Save the headache and just change the prop to get the performance you want and need.

Airshot

 

[MTboatguy]

Re: Larger than recommended max HP

There is certainly lots of input on this subject, and as usual, not all is factual. Let me start by stating that I am 100% in favour of exceeding the recommended hp rating by a REASONABLE increase on almost every hull. The biggest reason- the USCGs method of determining maximum hp is antiquated, and has not kept abreast of technological advancements in hull and engine design. The fiberglass runabout your dad bought in the 70s is not even close to what is offered on the market today, but the method of rating has remained virtually the same. I do not, however, endorse overpowering a boat in a way that dangerous to yourself or others.

To cover some of the contentious points-

- It is only illegal to exceed the hp rating in a few areas, check with your local water-law about this.
- Weight. This is almost a non-issue, as long as your hp increase is reasonable. As an example, a Mercury 175 Opti is only about 60 lbs heavier than the 115 Opti, which just means you might have to pack a bit lighter, and most likely won't damage the hull in any way.
- Insurance. As long as the area you boat in does not have hp restrictions, you will be able to find a policy. Your rates may increase slightly, but if you want to play harder, you gotta pay harder, right?
- Fuel economy/environment. If you regularly run your boat above 3/4 throttle to achieve the performance you desire (most of us do), you are better off with an increase in hp that will allow you run at 2/3 throttle to get the same results. Lower rpms also will increase engine life.
- "Danger". A reasonable increase in hp will not make you or your boat dangerous. Last time I checked, all boat throttles have multiple positions, not just on and off, and sometimes, having "a little bit extra" can get you out of a jam, like being washed down-river when the water is fast.

I would be interested in knowing what makes your words, worth more than others? Care to state your experience in these matters, so everybody understands or knows you know what you are talking about. If not, then your opinions are no more valid than anyone else's

 

[Lager]

Re: Larger than recommended max HP

Ahh, the OP is a St Johns river runner. Now I understand.
Until a few years ago I ran the St johns also and his choice is a very common practice there.
Now, what he is actually saying is this.
When I ditch the kids and the other adults, I wanna go play, but I still need it to stay afloat with everyone aboard.
You can always rebadge the engine, like I know anything about that?

 

[Barnacle_Bill]

Re: Larger than recommended max HP

It is only illegal in some locations, it's not a federal regulation. So depending on where you live it may OK from that angle.

I'm not recommending it though.

This is true. The plate gives the recommended max HP. Some states use this as the legal max and in states that use this, the coast guard has been known to alert local authorities about the violation. So like already mentioned it is best to check local regs

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Larger than recommended max HP

This is directly from the Coast Guard, with the link below it.

They do not and cannot enforce over powering a boat, they can do something about a boat being operated in an unsafe manner though.

MAXIMUM HORSEPOWER – The maximum horsepower
information listed on the capacity label is a guide for
selecting an engine for a boat. It’s not a violation of Federal
Regulation to install or use a larger engine. Boaters should
check state regulations for restrictions. They should also
take a look at their insurance policy regarding horsepower.

http://www.uscg.mil/d1/prevention/NavInfo/navinfo/documents/B-Boating_Safety.PDF

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Larger than recommended max HP

If you over power a boat and let your insurance company know the details, they have the option to insure it, at possibly a slightly higher cost, or say no.

I asked my insurer about it and they just asked a couple of questions and said "no problem".

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Larger than recommended max HP

So as usual, I expected this thread to fill up with lots of incorrect information, and it did... I'm actually impressed with ondarvr and bilge rat's answers, they are the most complete and correct...

Anyway, as its been pointed out, it is not illegal via coast guard, but your local regs MAY be different. (I challenge anyone to find an online version of their local regs that say it.. go ahead, look, they are all available.) And as far as insurance, THEY DON'T CARE one bit about what is on your capacity tag. They don't even ask. The only times horsepower will EVER come into play is when you manage to violate a magic length to HP ratio. Unless you are talking drag boat, the rule was meant for the high horsepower muscle PWC's. (260hp in a 12 foot hull...) Insurance would either not insure it, or charge you a higher rate. (that is even for factory boats.)

(used to work in insurance, we had lots of boats insured...)

The irony of these threads always amaze me... Nobody cares if someone chips and mods the diesel that pulls the boat to put out twice as much HP... Go 5hp over the sticker on the boat and god will smite thee.

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Larger than recommended max HP

If you over power a boat and let your insurance company know the details, they have the option to ensure it, at possibly a slightly higher cost, or say no.

I asked my insurer about it and they just asked a couple of questions and said "no problem".

So as usual, I expected this thread to fill up with lots of incorrect information, and it did... I'm actually impressed with ondarvr and bilge rat's answers, they are the most complete and correct...

Anyway, as its been pointed out, it is not illegal via coast guard, but your local regs MAY be different. (I challenge anyone to find an online version of their local regs that say it.. go ahead, look, they are all available.) And as far as insurance, THEY DON'T CARE one bit about what is on your capacity tag. They don't even ask. The only times horsepower will EVER come into play is when you manage to violate a magic length to HP ratio. Unless you are talking drag boat, the rule was meant for the high horsepower muscle PWC's. (260hp in a 12 foot hull...) Insurance would either not insure it, or charge you a higher rate. (that is even for factory boats.)

(used to work in insurance, we had lots of boats insured...)

The irony of these threads always amaze me... Nobody cares if someone chips and mods the diesel that pulls the boat to put out twice as much HP... Go 5hp over the sticker on the boat and god will smite thee.

File an insurance claim with property damage and/or personal injuries and see what happens when you have an over powered boat, I can assure you it won't be pretty.

 

[dazk14]

Re: Larger than recommended max HP

File an insurance claim with property damage and/or personal injuries and see what happens when you have an over powered boat, I can assure you it won't be pretty.

No, you can't assure me, because you don't know your ***** from your elbow. Forgive my French.

Ondar and Smoking are giving you real world information and you're here spouting because you want to hear your voice.

How do I know. We have owned a marine repair business since 1968. We have customers that are fully covered with motors that exceed the capacity plate, with full disclosure to their insurance company, not just the Agent.

So just stop. I'm rarely this short tempered, but I've had enough with the HP and trailer tire nonsense.

Best regards

 

[dazk14]

Re: Larger than recommended max HP

The rating plate on the boats is a "US Coast Guard" document and the Coast Guard actually shows up where you least expect them, I was stopped a few years ago on Soap Lake, WA by a US Coast Guard Agent who inspected my boat. Remember those tags specifically say:

"This Boat Complies with US Coast Guard Safety Standards in Effect on the Date of Certification"

The local Cops can torture you, the Coast Guard Policy is to send you to shore if the boat appears not sea worthy.

 

[MTboatguy]

Re: Larger than recommended max HP

Here in Montana, it is the Law Enforcement division of US Fish and Wildlife Service that will torture you, fortunately quite a few of the guys here locally served under my command in the Army and we all know each other.

 

[MTboatguy]

Re: Larger than recommended max HP

No, you can't assure me, because you don't know your ***** from your elbow. Forgive my French.

So just stop. I'm rarely this short tempered, but I've had enough with the HP and trailer tire nonsense.

That was sure un-called for, there is quite a bit that gets posted here that I get darn tired of and never do I post this type of message.

As far as French, you suck, but your good ole American Profanity is at the top of the class!

:joyous:

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Larger than recommended max HP

File an insurance claim with property damage and/or personal injuries and see what happens when you have an over powered boat, I can assure you it won't be pretty.

If the insurer has the details of your boat being over powered and issues the policy you are covered to the limits you agreed upon. This is no different than a normal policy.

 

[dazk14]

Re: Larger than recommended max HP

That was sure un-called for, there is quite a bit that gets posted here that I get darn tired of and never do I post this type of message.

As far as French, you suck, but your good ole American Profanity is at the top of the class!

:joyous:

Can you you please further explain your earlier comment that you have overpowered your boat by 10%.

Yet, you put your Buddies in The Montana Law Enforcement division of US Fish and Wildlife Service in a horrible position, given that they should torture(your words) you, but since you're Buddies, they'll move on to the OP...while you opine that my French needs improvement.

 

[MTboatguy]

Re: Larger than recommended max HP

Can you you please further explain your earlier comment that you have overpowered your boat by 10%.

Yet, you put your Buddies in The Montana Law Enforcement division of US Fish and Wildlife Service in a horrible position, given that they should torture(your words) you, but since you're Buddies, they'll move on to the OP...while you opine that my French needs improvement.

There is a bit of difference when you are talking about a 14 foot aluminum boat, rated at 20 horse, than a 17 foot rated at 115 and going to 175, at the worst, I put a 25 on a boat rated at 20 and that was many years ago, I have never imposed on any of my men, they are not my buddies, as my boat is not over horse power, I happen to know them because they served in my units and now work in Law Enforcement in the area I live, so I run into them quite often.

I did not say they should torture me, I said around here, they would be the ones doing the torturing, as they are the ones that do the patrolling on the lakes. As my boat is not over power, they have no need to torture me, but I have seen them issue citations to others that have larger than rated motors on their boats.

As I said, there is a lot of crap that gets posted some days and I get tired of it as well, but I don't call people stupid, or try to be insulting to them. I was trying to make light of this conversation that has gone down hill, hence my smiley faces, but now I can see that is not going to be possible.

So good night sir.

 

[dazk14]

Re: Larger than recommended max HP

There is a bit of difference when you are talking about a 14 foot aluminum boat, rated at 20 horse, than a 17 foot rated at 115 and going to 175, at the worst, I put a 25 on a boat rated at 20 and that was many years ago, I have never imposed on any of my men, they are not my buddies, as my boat is not over horse power, I happen to know them because they served in my units and now work in Law Enforcement in the area I live, so I run into them quite often.

I did not say they should torture me, I said around here, they would be the ones doing the torturing, as they are the ones that do the patrolling on the lakes. As my boat is not over power, they have no need to torture me, but I have seen them issue citations to others that have larger than rated motors on their boats.

As I said, there is a lot of crap that gets posted some days and I get tired of it as well, but I don't call people stupid, or try to be insulting to them. I was trying to make light of this conversation that has gone down hill, hence my smiley faces, but now I can see that is not going to be possible.

So good night sir.

Sorry, missed the smiley faces connection and lightness of your initial post - it sure does change the tone and put some egg on my face for firing back.

I can certainly take a ribbing and apologize for firing back at you.

Sorry about that!

 

[roscoe]

Re: Larger than recommended max HP

So as usual, I expected this thread to fill up with lots of incorrect information, and it did... I'm actually impressed with ondarvr and bilge rat's answers, they are the most complete and correct...

Anyway, as its been pointed out, it is not illegal via coast guard, but your local regs MAY be different. (I challenge anyone to find an online version of their local regs that say it.. go ahead, look, they are all available.)

Here you go.


Chapter 30. Navigable waters, harbors and navigation. 30.62 Other equipment. :: 2011 Wisconsin Code :: Wisconsin Code :: US Codes and Statutes :: US Law :: Justia

Wisconsin Code Chapter 30. Navigable waters, harbors and navigation. 30.62 Other equipment.

30.62(2m)
(2m) Overpowering. No person may sell, equip or operate, and no owner of a boat may allow a person to operate, a boat with any motor or other propulsion machinery beyond its safe power capacity rating, taking into consideration the type and construction of such watercraft and other existing operating conditions.


And here it is in printed form, from the regulations book they give you when you register your boat.
See the lower left hand paragraph.
It clearly says "overpowering is illegal."
It also references the capacity plate.





Where is my prize ?