Kicker Motor Setup

[hydrojohn]

I have been reading lots of threads and posts, but still feel like I want to pose a few questions specific to my situation. I respect all the cumulative experience on this forum.

I recently purchased a 2002 Lund 1700 Fisherman for use on inland reservoirs (some pretty big, but not like the Great Lakes or ocean). I want to add a 4 stroke outboard kicker for trolling with downriggers.

I have narrowed my kicker choices down to Tohatsu 8 or 9.8 HP or Suzuki 6 or 9.9 HP. Suzuki does not offer a 8 HP. The 9.9 HP seems to be the standard, but I want to be able to slow troll if necessary and am a little worried that the 9.9 with my boat might be a bit much. What about a 6 or 8 HP. However, if I drop to a 6 HP seems like it will be a one cylinder, which I have read can run a bit rough. I know some guys like the kickers to get them off the water if the big motor fails and while that is nice that is not my principal reason for getting one. So I am interested in opinions on motor size for my boat and application.

Second thing I am concerned about is operation of the throttle. I want to steer the boat using a connection from the big outboard to the kicker motor. That seems pretty straight forward. This means I would need to use the tiller handle to set the rpm/speed. I am hoping that this can easily be achieved and not have a situation where I am having to continuously readjust the handle to get the speed back up because it wants to throttle back on its own. Do you know what I mean?

The other option is to just run the kicker from the back of the boat using the tiller handle, but that does not appeal to me as it does not seem like it will be as comfortable and relaxing. But maybe given the alternatives it might be the way to go and might influence my decision of Tohatsu or Suzuki, because the Suzuki has the shift and stop in the tiller handle just like the Mercury.

Last question. Is that tiller handle going to get in the way of tipping up the motor when not in use?

 

[Georgesalmon]

Re: Kicker Motor Setup

I have a 9.9 merc pro-kicker. I got the remote and mounted it below my big motor remote. Its hooked up to my big motor for steering when trolling. I can do throttle and shift and steering from the front, works great. I can troll at less than 1mph for walleyes. I also have a sport pilot auto helm and when trolling I often let it steer the boat. Its like having another person on board when we get a double or triple.



If you look close you can see the kicker remote below the old merc remote. You can also see the autohelm behind the helm wheel and on the dash is mounted the electronic remote speed control for the kicker. You just have to have that if you want any good control of the kicker RPM's. I couldn't get either a remote or a tiller to maintain good trolling speeds. And the difference of a few HP is almost mute at displacement speeds. We tried a 15hp and the WOT top speed of 7mph was the same as the 9.9 at WOT.

 

[greenbush future]

Re: Kicker Motor Setup

I would consider a bow mounted electric trolling motor. I have used everything you have suggested and adding a kicker to the back is costly and can be a big pain to use and operate. I would think the best way for me to fish walleye, (troll) was using a 24 volt electric, with a remote foot control. All of your ideas will work, just depends on what's important to you and how deep your pockets are. Merry Christmas

 

[blackhawk180]

Re: Kicker Motor Setup

I agree with Georgesalmon on engine size and operation. I too run a 9.9 bigfoot but it did not have the remote option when purchased (very nice option, I might add). I installed a 'troll control' which is electronic and for RPM only. I still have to shift into gear at the motor but once that's done, I can troll all day without touching the kicker since steering and throttle are all at the helm.
One of my fishing buddies has a Lund with the same setup as Georgesalmon and just loves it. He also runs a bow mounted electric for bass and walleye but runs the kicker for salmon trolling with down riggers. How you finally decide to setup your boat with be determined by the type of fishing you do and budget..... it always comes down to budget for me.

 

[Georgesalmon]

Re: Kicker Motor Setup

I have a bow mount minnkota on my other boat used for fishing anywhere except Lk Michigan. Only Problem with electrics is how long can you troll? For the Salmon and rainbow fishing, also Green Bay Walleyes in the last couple of years its not uncommon for us to troll from 4:00AM til dark if the fishing is slow. We carry breakfast, lunch and dinner with us. I couldn't carry enough batteries to last for 17 hours at 2.5 to 3.5 mph. Not to mention the lights, electronics, elect down riggers, Radar, radio, etc we have on all day. I transfer all the house loads to our trolling motor and it just barely keeps up mostly, but it still needs a charge between trips with the on board charger. The start battery is just a normal marine starting battery and the trolling motor battery is a deep cycle largest size and capacity I could fit.

 

[Brian 26]

Re: Kicker Motor Setup

What do you have on the bow for a trolling motor? I've heard from other guys that say once they bought a Terrova 80 lbs they quit using their kickers.

Here are my thoughts:
If you're worried about resale get the suzuki
The tiller controlled motor will be much cheaper, my friend bought a Yamaha 9.9 with remote and linked to his steering and after shopping around he found a deal on one for $4,500 after installation.
Another option is to try pulling a drift sock with your big motor, google the "lindy twin bag trolling system" to see what I'm talking about.

 

[hydrojohn]

Re: Kicker Motor Setup

My Lund Fisherman has a minn kota 24 V 70 lb thrust electric trolling motor. Since this boat is new to me I have not used the electric motor yet. Maybe it is good enough for trolling. I am wondering what kind of speed I can generate?

 

[airshot]

Re: Kicker Motor Setup

Most all brand name small outboards above 4hp are twin cylinders and have been for years. Not to say you might stumble across an economy model, but everything I have seen are twin cylinders. Now that I have re-read your post, I see you were looking at 4 stroke's
could be different there. I know most all 2 strokes were twins.

 

[Starcraft5834]

Re: Kicker Motor Setup

Electric trolling avoids possible installation problems. Less expensive too

 

[bassman284]

Re: Kicker Motor Setup

I won't talk about trolling because I rarely troll. However, I have a 9.9 kicker on my boat because the lake nearest to me imposes a 10 hp max from late May to early September (political deal, don't ask). I'm just going to talk horsepower.

I have a 2001 Lund Explorer 1650. I bought the 9.9 because I wanted to be able to go as fast a possible during the 10 hp season (the rule is no wake or 5 mph the rest of the year, recently changed to 5 mph year round). I was a little disapointed because the best I could get out of the 9.9 was about 6.5 to 6.7 mph wide open. I asked the service manager at the dealer where I bought it about changing the prop but he told me it wouldn't really help and that the best I could do with that boat/motor combo was kind of putt around. Finally learned about displacement/hull speed here on iboats and realized a 6 hp probably would have done the job.

Now that said, the OP's Fisherman is about 400 lb heavier than mine and the 6 hp might be a little light but would probably be adequate for trolling at 2-3. Certainly an 8 would do the job. IMO, a 9.9 would be extra weight for no gain.

Controls are another matter about which I know nothing.

 

[JimS123]

Re: Kicker Motor Setup

I think some may have missed the downrigger part. An electric trolling motor is absolutely unacceptable for your application.

Go with the 9.9. Slow trolling won't be a problem. I set mine at 0.9-1.9 mph depending on circumstances and it holds steady - no issues with a need to readjust as long as the throttle friction is adjusted tight. Steering off the main is the only way to go. The tiller handle is also not a problem when tilting.

 

[hydrojohn]

Re: Kicker Motor Setup

Getting some thoughtful advice. Yes I too think the downrigger use is a factor. I plan to run two and that must put a pretty good drag on an electric trolling motor, but if others are making that work I would love to hear it. Also am wanting more opinions on how well the throttle friction on a tiller handle works to hold a steady trolling speed.

 

[JimS123]

Re: Kicker Motor Setup

Getting some thoughtful advice. Yes I too think the downrigger use is a factor. I plan to run two and that must put a pretty good drag on an electric trolling motor, but if others are making that work I would love to hear it. Also am wanting more opinions on how well the throttle friction on a tiller handle works to hold a steady trolling speed.

To my way of thinking an "electric trolling motor" is a misnomer. You use it to move around while sitting on the bow casting in different locations. I have never seen anyone actually "trolling" (moving under power with a line and lure trailing behind the boat). Now, having said that, I DID try it a couple of times. Wasn't happy with it....LOL.

My Troller is a 9.9 Evinrude, with a twist grip throttle. Half way up the tiller handle is a small wing nut that puts tension on the rod that rotates to move the throttle. My typical trolling course is a 4 mile long stretch of a river. On a typical saturday we'll make 3 passes at about 1.5 hours each. In between we power up the main to go back up to the start. When I drop the 'Rude in the water and fire her up, I put it in forward, adjust the speed using a paddle wheel sensor and I'm good to go for the next 1.5 hours. I can't remember ever making an adjustment once we got going.

 

[Georgesalmon]

Re: Kicker Motor Setup

We pull 4 downriggers and 2 to 4 planer boards often with lead or copper lines , plus a lead or copper flat line. Nearly always 9 rods up to 12 when I got 4 people aboard, so lots of drag. To get 3 to 3.5mph when trolling rainbows on Lk Michigan I'm glad for my 9.9hp. Couple of my buddies have Yamaha 8hp 4stroke High thrust and they are running at 3/4 or better throttle. I get by at less than half throttle most times and I can troll about 10 hrs on 3 gal gas. As for speed control I would never get rid of my trollmaster it just makes it so easy to keep speeds right in changing wind and current and direction. With the tiller or remote it was a pain to get just the right speed and when we would turn it was a pain again, but it did stay pretty well steady when finally set.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Kicker Motor Setup

I troll with downriggers a great deal and have an 8hp Merc Kicker plus an 80lb MK Terrova with i-pilot. I use the electric when possible because the auto pilot with cruise control is fantastic, just set the course and sit back. I have never drained the batteries, even after 8 hours of continuous use there is still plenty of life left. I may fish with 8 rods, two or three on DRs, the others on divers or lead, it isn't a problem. BUT..... it ain't perfect, I do this on lakes and slow moving bodies of water where the targeted fish like slower speeds, as current increases, or where the fish like faster presentations, then the gas motor is used.

At times I may use both the MK and the Merc, the Merc provides the needed thrust and the MK still provides the auto pilot, this works very well for higher speeds or in wind and waves.

For rivers with faster current, or places where I need to maneuver a great deal and use a good deal of throttle control, I just use the Merc.

Using a tiller controlled kicker gives you much better control than when connected to the main motor and the steering wheel, but in average lake trolling this may not be a big deal, I do it both ways, just depends on where I'm fishing and what I'm fishing for.

Do not buy a single cylinder kicker, not all are terrible, but most are, they tend to be loud and vibrate a great deal.

All the 4 stroke Kickers work well, high thrust is better, 8 or 9.9 isn’t going to make a difference. After using just about every brand, the Yamahas are my favorite, and they outnumber all other brands combined around here by about 10-1, people really like them. But again, they all work OK. Merc and Honda tend to be difficult to control the RPMs right off of idle, even a tiny turn of the throttle makes the RPMs jump higher than you wanted. People use aftermarket electronic throttle controls to solve the problem, which works well in a remote operation setup.

 

[Brian 26]

Re: Kicker Motor Setup

My Lund Fisherman has a minn kota 24 V 70 lb thrust electric trolling motor. Since this boat is new to me I have not used the electric motor yet. Maybe it is good enough for trolling. I am wondering what kind of speed I can generate?

Probably 2-2.5 mph

 

[blackhawk180]

Re: Kicker Motor Setup

All the 4 stroke Kickers work well, high thrust is better, 8 or 9.9 isn’t going to make a difference. After using just about every brand, the Yamahas are my favorite, and they outnumber all other brands combined around here by about 10-1, people really like them. But again, they all work OK. Merc and Honda tend to be difficult to control the RPMs right off of idle, even a tiny turn of the throttle makes the RPMs jump higher than you wanted. People use aftermarket electronic throttle controls to solve the problem, which works well in a remote operation setup.

Totally agree. My Merc runs OK but without the electronic throttle control, I'd be back there all day. Super sensitive to throttle input which in not a good thing when trolling. Next kicker is a Yamaha for sure.

 

[Quick3201]

Re: Kicker Motor Setup

Beautiful metal work! Great job.

 

[hydrojohn]

Re: Kicker Motor Setup

Well I purchased a 9.9 HP Suzuki 4 stroke and will be mounting it myself. No Suzuki dealer within 200 miles of me. Plan to mount directly to the transom. Now my choice is to permanently mount by drilling holes in my transom (hate to do it) or relying on the screw clamps that come with the mounting bracket. Not that worried about getting the motor stolen, more concerned about it falling off the boat. Am I being foolish to not mount with bolts?

 

[Teamster]

Re: Kicker Motor Setup

I've had to many friends that didn't want to through bolt motors lose them,...............

Once it's gone it's gone,...........

Bolt it on,.......................