Kerry's Proposed $30 BILLION Study

[KennyKenCan]

This is absolutly amazing!<br /><br />John Kerry is proposing, if he gets elected, that he would fund a $30 billion dollar study into finding alternative fuel supplies, to lessen our dependancy on foriegn oil!<br /><br />$30 BILLION !<br /><br />Just where does Kerry intend to get that kind of money!<br /><br />I'll tell you...<br /><br />$10 billion, to be cut from the Armed Forces!<br /><br />$5 billion, to be cut from the CIA!<br /><br />$5 billion, cut from the FBI!<br /><br />And the remaining $10 billion, by raising taxes on YOU!<br /><br />AND ALL OF THIS JUST FOR A STUDY !!<br /><br />A study folks!<br /><br />This is just a total waste of time and effort!<br /><br />The government already has spent millions of dollars to do precicly that!<br /><br />Fuel Cells and Hydrogen are the answers!<br /><br />WHY DO WE HAVE TO SPEND MORE MONEY, $30 BILLION, FOR A STUDY THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE, THATS GOING TO SAY THAT WE HAVE TO INVEST INTO FUEL CELL AND HYDROGEN TECHNOLOGY!<br /><br />The study has already been done!<br /><br />Why spend more for the same answers! <br /><br />Political deception, thats all this is! <br /><br />Political grasping too!<br /><br />Not even elected and he is already telling us how he intends on wasting YOUR money!<br /><br />What a maroon!

 

[LubeDude]

Re: Kerry's Proposed $30 BILLION Study

Like I said in another post, It doesnt matter how much you show a liberal what a disaster this Idiot is, they will vote for him because he isnt George Bush. They want the power back and they dont care about who it is they vote for.<br /><br />Mickey mouse<br /><br />Charles Manson<br /><br />John Kerry<br /><br />Hes not GW

 

[Bob in Calif.]

Re: Kerry's Proposed $30 BILLION Study

Hopefully John SCARY just shot himself in the foot with this proposal. He must have an IQ equivalent to a bag of rocks.<br /><br />If he did shoot himself in the foot, I bet he wouild ask for another purple heart. <br /><br />...Bob in Calif...

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: Kerry's Proposed $30 BILLION Study

Alternative fuels tech is here. They just don't know how to go foward on it. All of the alternatives means the loss of road tax. Then gas tax will keep increasing as the new fuels are used.

 

[12Footer]

Re: Kerry's Proposed $30 BILLION Study

That's true ,Lt. The tech exists.IMHO, the main hurdles are alternative fuel availablity, it's shipping requirements, and an infrastructure equal to the nearby 7-11 to fuel-up from.Add to this the additional time required,technical and harzardous complexity of the fueling process, and the cost-effectiveness of our efforts come into play big-time. <br />I'm not sugesting that it cannot be done ---just that it cannot be done for profit (iether for coorperate or government interests). Someday tho, when fossil fuel supplies reach a market price that negates it's preference, it will happen.<br />This "study" may have to be done some day soon. As for the cost, Kerry's estimate is a gross underestimate (again in my opinion only). I predict the costs of setting the infrasturcture up to be so stinking expensive, that it will only be undertaken as an act of desperation.<br />I equate this effort, if and when it is set into motion, to the goliath efforts to build the nation's interstate highway system by the Late, Great President Ike in the late 40's, and still continuing to this day.<br />It werks,but......

 

[SpinnerBait_Nut]

Re: Kerry's Proposed $30 BILLION Study

I think I will rig up a sail on my truck.

 

[jimchere]

Re: Kerry's Proposed $30 BILLION Study

All BS. First off, I'm not voting for "jFk." GW2 admin has done very well with the turd it was handed.<br />Now I digress. Alternative energy is possible, but we have a problem: The major oil companies have so much capital tied up in dino-sources. Think about that for a moment. You business men/women out there know what an obsoletion of your capital equipment would do.....<br />Don't bother drawing this off into a "GWB oil pal" debate...lest we get into the Heinz co. and where the Kennedy family made its fortune.<br />The only way to alternative energy in a free society is that the PEOPLE push it. Its a free country. Hey, if you got a business that requires a 12mpg truck/SUV, then that's fine...you need it. C'mon, if you've got an Excursion/Expedition/Tahoe/Durango just for a drive to the mall/grocery/etc..<br />The technology does exist to run internal combustion engines on grain alcohol. Free yourself for a moment about the cognitive opinion you may have as a result of the **** poor attempt in the '70s with carburetors and vacuum/mech timing.<br />Give up oil overnight? NO. Work at it slowly, through what you buy and do? Yes.

 

[samagee]

Re: Kerry's Proposed $30 BILLION Study

Then they will have to decide if we will be allowed to seperate hydrogen from our own home water supply, in order to fuel our vehicles.

 

[samagee]

Re: Kerry's Proposed $30 BILLION Study

You know. Now that I think about it. Why not build an extra feature on to the new cars that does the seperation for us. The hydrogen goes into the fuel cells, and the oxygen just goes back into the atmosphere. This way, all we have to do is fill up a water tank in our cars at night from the garden hose.

 

[1994lundminnow]

Re: Kerry's Proposed $30 BILLION Study

Where is there more information on this $30 Billion proposal? I'd like to look into it a bit deeper, and I can't find anything on it.<br /><br />My oppinion: The infrastructure to supply the U.S. with alternative fuels already exists (to an extent) and would only need some minor tweaks. I don't see why every gas station in the country couldn't swap out one of the Regular Unleaded pumps for Ethenol and/or Hydrogen. Naturally, these new chemicals would probably require different holding tanks and different pumps / fueling systems, but reality is that these gas tanks and pumps, etc that exist today have a limited life span anyway. Its not uncommon for gas stations to dig up their old tanks to replace them, often by federal regulation to adhere to enviromental standards. So yeah, there would be an expensive transition, but the infrastructure is there.<br /><br />The main hurdle isn't really the oil companies either. They want to make money. Period. They don't care how they make, they just want it. And at the end of the day, they are the best positioned to offer these alternative fuels because they already have the refineries, distribution channels, etc. in place. The main hurdle is technology. Sure the technology exists, every major car manufacturer has a hydrogen powered car, but they are not yet at a point where they can mass produce these vehicles in a cost effective manor. That's the hurdle. Today, these cars cost millions to manufacture. Like the original computers, as big as an entire room and cost millions to make. The technology just isn't quite there yet on the manufacturing side.<br /><br />Make no mistake, if you build a Hydrogen powered car, the hydrogen will come. And the cost wont come to tax payers, the oil companies will be more than happy to be the first to market with affordable hydrogen for your car. Its in their best interest.

 

[12Footer]

Re: Kerry's Proposed $30 BILLION Study

Originally posted by 1994lundminnow:<br /> Where is there more information on this $30 Billion proposal? I'd like to look into it a bit deeper, and I can't find anything on it.

<br />Me iether. I'm beginning to think it's just another "Kerry-okee".

 

[OBJ]

Re: Kerry's Proposed $30 BILLION Study

Hmmmmmm....30 on the large side.......<br /><br /><br />

 

[RetNav]

Re: Kerry's Proposed $30 BILLION Study

I just found it again. Knew it was somewhere as I remember reading it when orig posted.<br /> http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000176&sid=aRQk0J7e37SU&refer=us_elections

 

[rolmops]

Re: Kerry's Proposed $30 BILLION Study

I think it is worth the 30 billion, if that is what it takes to regain energy independence.We are just now finding out that fighting wars over natural resources is a lot more expensive and Iraq is only the first one.Unless we become energy independent we will have to fight tougher and more expensive wars to keep the oil flowing from halfway around the world.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Kerry's Proposed $30 BILLION Study

No doubt a sustained program, for alternate sources of affordable energy, would be prudent. Commit $30 Bil. to come up with some halfbaked environmental whacko solution. I don't think so. If the Dems were serious about energy independance, they would quit stonewalling the use of our own known, existing resources. The fact is that they just pay lip service to the subject. They would like nothing better than to force you into expensive alternate fuels.<br /><br />Todate, they have been unsuccessful in driving fuel prices up to European levels. They want you out of your car. They would like nothing better than to see the teeming masses herded into mass transit. I hope I don't get any disagreement here. They don't deny it. They just won't admit to the reasons for it. Get you out of your car, they have more control over you. The higher the cost of personal transportation, the more your movements are controlled.<br /><br />Stop and think about it. Why would Algor throw an absolute hissy fit re the internal combustion engine. It should practically be worshipped, not reviled. It was probably one of the top few inventions that gave individual Americans a real sense of power over their own destiny thereby fueling economic growth and power, unparalleled in human history.

 

[PW2]

Re: Kerry's Proposed $30 BILLION Study

While there is technology available re the fuel cell, there is no free lunch regarding energy. Separating O2 and H requires energy, and that energy has to come from somewhere. We certainly don't have it in place now.<br /><br />Surely no one really seriously thinks we can solve our energy problems by drilling more wells? Postpone it a bit perhaps, but certainly not solve it. The north slope of Alaska started pumping oil in 1976, and they figured there was 25 years of oil there. It is going to run out at some point in time.<br /><br />And someday we will have to eliminate the subsidies and corporate welfare to the oil companies, which make gas cheaper and slow the development of alternatives. <br /><br />There is a lot to work out re alternate energy, and $30 bil seems a small price to pay considering the alternative.

 

[12Footer]

Re: Kerry's Proposed $30 BILLION Study

Originally posted by PW2:<br /> While there is technology available re the fuel cell, there is no free lunch regarding energy. Separating O2 and H requires energy, and that energy has to come from somewhere. We certainly don't have it in place now.<br /><br />Surely no one really seriously thinks we can solve our energy problems by drilling more wells? Postpone it a bit perhaps, but certainly not solve it. The north slope of Alaska started pumping oil in 1976, and they figured there was 25 years of oil there. It is going to run out at some point in time.<br /><br />And someday we will have to eliminate the subsidies and corporate welfare to the oil companies, which make gas cheaper and slow the development of alternatives. <br /><br />There is a lot to work out re alternate energy, and $30 bil seems a small price to pay considering the alternative.

OMG! I actually agree with you, PW!!! (except for the partison "coorperate welfare" noise ).<br />Even your statement ,"small price to pay". But therein lies the fly in the carburator bowl --- It's way too small to be anything but a foot in the door, or another finger on my wallet.<br />My proposal would be to keep fed funds (my funds) out of the developement, and let the free market (my market) do so and make it profitable. It beats the heck outta added fed deficits that we can ill afford.

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: Kerry's Proposed $30 BILLION Study

I swear Plywoody, It does not matter what the left proposes you will agree with them. This study has been done over and over and over and yet Kerry wants to spend another 30 Bil. yet he didnt want to spend 80 billon to make sure our troups who are at war have the supplies to take care of bussiness.This is crap. I however would love to see an alternative to relieing on forien oil, but SKerry is proposing a study not a solution.

 

[rolmops]

Re: Kerry's Proposed $30 BILLION Study

Let me try and convince all of you that 30 billion dollars is not a lot to prevent us all from having to dance to some oil sheik's tune.<br />Let us presume that a one (1)cent tax per gallon is levied and that one cent goes to alternative energy resource research in the form of grants to universities(this is how medical research is promoted)This research will be done by people that have no interest in keeping the oil flowing.This in order to prevent the sort of sabotage that can be expected from oil companies and car producers who have a financial interest in leaving the current situation unchanged.Boomyal would you really care whether your private personal means of transport is powered by gasoline or cabbage, as long as it keeps you going?<br />Unless we as a nation provide the means to do research and development into alternative energy supply,we will have to take the bus 10 years down the line.Please do not expect the big energy producers of today to spent their profits on research.Their current investments give them great profit. We can see that they are powerful enough to price gouge the population of an entire state(Enron, California)They will also try to prevent any research and development that will endanger their monopoly.They did this in the 70ties by buying out companies with promising research and shutting them down.(the same way microsoft stops new developments by competitors).<br />It is naive to believe that private enterprise and yankee ingenuity can stand up against companies that walk the halls of power and indeed are more powerful that some independent nations.<br />Every time you attack those that try to limit the power of those giants, you shoot yourself in the leg!

 

[JasonJ]

Re: Kerry's Proposed $30 BILLION Study

I don't think there needs to be a whole lot more studying being done on this, we know how to do it. It is implementing it that is the problem. A hydrogen fillup station is a very different animal to a gas station, the cost of converting the infrastructure would be enormous. Also, like was previosly said, generating the hydrogen takes a lot of energy. The logical way to get that energy is nuclear power, but there has not been a new reactor built since Three Mile Island. A combination of nuclear and hydroelectric energy, creating hydrogen to power fuel cell equiped vehicles is the most viable answer to eliminating our dependance on oil, but it is far, far away from happening. The near term solution is hybrid technology. If a massive deisel locomotive is nothing but an engine driving an electric generator that is powering the wheels, why can that not be implemented in an automobile? The current hybrid tech still has the gas engine driving the car with some assistance from the eletric motor. A small diesel engine driving a generator powering electic motors on the wheels is a far more efficient way to get it done, but there is something blocking this from happening, and it is money. How is anyone supposed to make money on fuel efficient vehicles when they can convince us we need 350 horsepower to get the kids to soccer practic? Its our own damn fault, we are the ones buying the gas hogs, why should they change anything? Hell I drive a Ford F150 with a 351 in it, so I am just as bad. I had a Suzuki Sidekick before that, and was perfectly happy until I needed something to tow and haul loads. I compensate by only driving the truck when I need to, a few times a week. I spend less money on, and use less gas drivng than with the Sidekick (because I bring the work truck home), but not everyone has that luxury. Like I said in a post a long time ago, we can drive the gas hogs if we want, but we can't complain about the cost if we choose to be wasteful. The oil will go away in our lifetime, and if something isn't done ahead of time, we will be in the stone ages again. Everything we do depend on oil. Plastic comes from oil, what will happen when we have not figured out a way to make plastic without oil? Everything we do is plastic now. That alone will cripple us as a society, never mind not having gas. It will not be pretty. If Kerry can spend 30 billion and actually come up with a solution, that is fine. The government wastes money on worse things all the time (I won't even mention the big waste that is happening now). If Kerry burns 30 billion on a pointless wasteful study that accomplishes nothing, then that is a bad thing. Just to keep things fair, Bush wants to spent gobs of cash on space travel. Hey, I am all for that, but what good will it be to send a manned mission to Mars if we can't even drive to the store because we are out of fuel? The only problem I have with Bush right now is that his priorities are not focused on what we need right now, as well as the near future. As our president and the leader of the world, he needs to implement policy that will help us as a society to acheive healthy progress, not waste money on needles programs. It just isn't happening right now, and that is the problem. People want Bush out not because he is a bad man, it is because he is a bad president. Kerry will probably not be much different, but this election will be based on this one thing: We know Bush is a bad president, we don't know what Kerry will do, so do we go with the known flawed administration or do we take a chance on a new flawed administration. I know, you Bush lovers will start the flame fest, but take a step back and actually look, our country is in a world of hurt, and none of this was going on 3.5 years ago. Coincidence? (PS), don't even start the "your a liberal poopypants" business, I just want things to improve, I could give a hairy rats arse if it is a rep or a dem that gets it done....If anyone is mad about what I have said, go click the link on the "redneck rollercoaster" post, that'll cheer ya up.