Keel damage; what would you do; what will it cost? (with pictures)

[geneseo1911]

I'm buying this '82 Cobalt 19BR with a Merc 260 from a buddy. Floor is solid; transom is solid, boat is in good shape for its age, and runs well:

I've been working all week on fixing the minor issues any old boat has. This morning I noticed some keel damage I'd missed before:

As I hope you can see, the damage has gone through the gelcoat and outer layer of mat, but the woven roving looks untouched. I'm not new to glass work; I totally rebuilt (stringers deck & transom) a '69 larson All American, which was my first boat (and is now for sale...). That said, I don't really enjoy it and I don't really have a good way to lift a boat this big and heavy that I would trust my life with. Fixing it on the trailer is an option, but doesn't look like much fun. I'm going to take it to a "glass guy" who works at the marina on Sundays, but before that, I'd like to know:

-How would you fix this?
(I'm thinking grind to good glass, new mat, marine tex, and a KeelShield)
-What should I expect to pay a "pro"?
The damage area is about 20" by 1/2" and the damage is pretty consistant.
-Would you run it this way once or twice before repairs can be made?
Water in the bilge over the damaged area does not leak out. I'm guessing that an old Cobalt like this is going to be very heavily built and still have a lot of good glass yet in the keel area. My buddy obviously ran it this way for some time...

Thanks for your help!

 

[jigngrub]

Re: Keel damage; what would you do; what will it cost? (with pictures)

Woodonglass will be around here in a little while and he'll have a lot of good info for you on this subject.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Keel damage; what would you do; what will it cost? (with pictures)

This kind of repair SHOULD be done from BOTH sides. BUT... If it's solid NOT spongy at all on the interior where the heavy glass is showing and totally dry, then... You could grind it out and feather back, lay some CSM, and 1708 cloth, fill and fair, Gelcoat or paint and be done in a day. The Keel Guard is Optional but NOT a bad idea. Since you've done some glassin, you could do this and it wouldn't be all that bad, even upside down. Not GREAT, but not THAT BAD!!!! If you PAY for it expect at least 2 hundred bucks. If you want a quick fix to finish the season, acetone wash, Marinetex go. But I WOULD fix it with glass eventually if she wer mine.

 

[geneseo1911]

Re: Keel damage; what would you do; what will it cost? (with pictures)

Woodonglass-you just made my day! I am fully prepared to drop $500 to avoid grinding fiberglass over my head! After reading some of the other keel threads around here, I was afraid you'd say $2000, not $200.

Does the old roving have to be ground into, or will the new resin adhere to it so long as it's dry?

If it's not leaking, will I be causing substantial damage by splashing it before getting any work done? I was hoping to go Sunday. Here in central IL, marine supplies are hard to come by. I can't get Marinetex locally (let alone FG supplies), so it'd be next week before I could do anything.

Thanks again.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Keel damage; what would you do; what will it cost? (with pictures)

If you can go to a Auto parts store or Lowe's or Home Depot and get some BONDO HAIR and apply it as a temporary patch for the weekend. Putty knife it in and then 60 grit sand paper it smooth. It is SOMEWHAT waterproof and will protect it better than nothing. Spray some Rustoleum Paint on it too! and Go have fun. they can grind it all out when they do the proper fix. It could be 500 bucks but should not be MORE than that.

 

[BWT]

Re: Keel damage; what would you do; what will it cost? (with pictures)

I agree to an extent with WOG post; IMHO it needs to be glassed now (and if it were me I would do everything from the exterior of the hull; csm, couple 1708 and finish with a couple more csm all in poly). What I feel a little leery about is doing a quick fix with marine tex or some other putty and calling it good for the Summer (or even the weekend). Granted he is strongly recommending doing a proper repair in the Fall, but personally I would tackle it now and not wait. Since you've done some glassing, this is a 1 day job. Besides, forecast for the weekend doesn't look all that good for you I'd get'er done now and be ready for next week. If you do it yourself, less than $75 in materials.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Keel damage; what would you do; what will it cost? (with pictures)

I agree to an extent with WOG post; IMHO it needs to be glassed now (and if it were me I would do everything from the exterior of the hull; csm, couple 1708 and finish with a couple more csm all in poly). What I feel a little leery about is doing a quick fix with marine tex or some other putty and calling it good for the Summer (or even the weekend). Granted he is strongly recommending doing a proper repair in the Fall, but personally I would tackle it now and not wait. Since you've done some glassing, this is a 1 day job. Besides, forecast for the weekend doesn't look all that good for you I'd get'er done now and be ready for next week. If you do it yourself, less than $75 in materials.

I was tryin to say that, but somehow it would just not come out!!!!!!

 

[swire]

Re: Keel damage; what would you do; what will it cost? (with pictures)

Here is what you could do. Get a floor jack and lift the bow of the boat enough to slip 4x4s between the boat and trailer. Then put the trailer jack all the way up. That should get you enough clearance so that you don't have to lay under the boat. Get an angle grinder and in less than 5 minutes you would have enough material removed to start patching. Then do what others suggests with the CSM and 1708. Mix some filler in with the resin and apply a skim coat to smooth things out. Sand it down. Then put on your keel guard.

 

[jmorgan87]

Re: Keel damage; what would you do; what will it cost? (with pictures)

Welcome to iboats, good to see another old cobalt! Mine is a 78 trihull, similar coloring and same engine!

good luck on the repair.

 

[geneseo1911]

Re: Keel damage; what would you do; what will it cost? (with pictures)

I have several options to lift the boat....forklift, loader tractor, and backhoe, but all leak down with time. How much support would it take to keep from damaging the hull? If the stern stays on the bunks, wouldn't the corners of blocks on the bunks in the front put a lot of pressure on a small area of the hull?

Thanks for the welcome jmorgan. I've been lurking for a while and watched your progress with great interest because your boat is so similar to mine. I'm amazed at how well this thing has held up compared to most boats its age. There is something to be said about the way Cobalt builds things. Even the interior is in good shape, although indoor storage is partly to thank for that. I'll post up some more comprehensive pictures once I get all these little jobs done. Today I'm replacing the clock (the only gauge that didn't work), installing my GPS/sonar, and re-installing the teak swim deck.

 

[swire]

Re: Keel damage; what would you do; what will it cost? (with pictures)

I've seen several big boats sitting on tiny little stands, so putting all the pressure of the hull on a small area seems to be ok. Right now my 19 1/2 foot fish and ski is sitting on two blocks in the rear and the bow hook in the front is sitting on a block. The blocks in the rear are maybe 6 inches by 12 inches.


I found this setup that a guy made for his sailboat.

 

[geneseo1911]

Re: Keel damage; what would you do; what will it cost? (with pictures)

yikes! I guess that 'glass is stronger than I thought! That certainly makes it seem less insurmountable. At least on the trailer it couldn't fall on me so long as I was careful where I stuck my arms. I still don't think I'd get under the boat in your picture!

 

[ingalp01]

Re: Keel damage; what would you do; what will it cost? (with pictures)

You don't have to worry about damaging the hull by lifting it up. place your supports in the farthest rear corners and right in the middle of the keel. Either in front of or behind the damaged area, or both depending on where it's located. Mine's been up for over two months, and no problems, with me and my buddy in and out of it and removing the engine, etc... I've been under mine quite a bit and have had no problems, sanding and grinding away hull blisters and such. It is very, very sturdy up there... It'll be fine if you lift it up...

 

[geneseo1911]

Re: Keel damage; what would you do; what will it cost? (with pictures)

UGH. Marina wants 1200-1500 to do the fix. What a scam. I guess now I'm looking for somewhere else to go that will be more reasonable. Slim pickings around here, though. Anybody know a good (reasonable) 'glass man in east central illinois?

 

[ingalp01]

Re: Keel damage; what would you do; what will it cost? (with pictures)

Just thinking out loud here, but drop a hundred bucks on materials, ask lots of questions, and go out and do it yourself and get back in the water. $1200 to $1500 sounds about right for a shop to do it, and based on what I've seen some shops do, you never know what you're getting for your money.

Just my .02 cents worth. Keep in mind I had never attempted anything on this scale before getting the support of the i-boats family... We'll be here to talk you through whatever you need. And you'll save that money for gas on the water and or beer... Your choice...

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Keel damage; what would you do; what will it cost? (with pictures)

This is not that hard of a repair to do. Even upsided down. It's gunna be 32" by 8". You'll need a gallon of resin a yard of CSM and a Yard of 1708 Biax. Your total cost should be under $200 bucks and you'll be done in a day. You can precut the layups and wet em out before you lay em so it will be easier to do and not as messy. We'll talk you through everything. You can DO IT!!!!

 

[geneseo1911]

Re: Keel damage; what would you do; what will it cost? (with pictures)

Well, I went down to Mom & Dad's this morning and dug all my fiberglass supplies out. Much to my surprise, not only do I have all the materials I'll need, including gelcoat, my resin is still fresh.

I was gonna start on it tonight, but we had a fire call, so I didn't get to. Hopefully tomorrow.

I'm planning to lift it by the front ring with the tractor, slide some blocks under it to hold it off the trailer, and let it back down. Then grind off any loose stuff and scuff the good stuff. Then 1 csm, 1 cloth, and 1 more csm. Fair and Gelcoat. I've never done gelcoat before....any tips?

I need to get the keelshield ordered. Is it true that sitting on a roller will ruin it in short order? The front most roller contacts the keel, but has little pressure on it. I can turn the roller by hand with the boat strapped down. Should I relocate the roller or not worry about it?

 

[badkins50]

Re: Keel damage; what would you do; what will it cost? (with pictures)

it's good to see your trying it on your own. it's not that bad, just take your time and dont get frustrated. gel coat is forgiving and it can be cleaned up with a little elbow work and some different grit sand paper as you can find out from more experienced pro's on the website. as for the roller position, i think i would try to find out either from your buddy or launching what caused this to happenand where like this? was it the position of the rollers? was it run aground? from the close up pictures, it looks like there is some pretty good scratches and marks around the damaged area. my trailer is all roller style and the weight is distributed as close as possible equally across all the rollers and v-block with the exception of the cross beam "protector" rollers. good luck and keep us posted.

 

[geneseo1911]

Re: Keel damage; what would you do; what will it cost? (with pictures)

Okay. Finally got to work on the boat. Thurs night I got it lifted and built a pier to set it on. The hoist worked pretty well, but it took an hour to dig it out from under all the *&%# it had piled up around it. Our shop is a mess.

Tonight I started in on the grinding. I used a squirrel cage fan to blow the dust away from me, and didn't get much on me. So I think the grinding is done, and was less painful than expected. The bad news is that the delamination was worse than I expected and a couple areas had to go a fair bit larger and deeper to get to good glass. In one spot I had to go through what appeared to be two layers of roving, leaving as near as I can tell, a layer or two of CSM.

So, I'm thinking I will have to strengthen the inside of the hull a but as well. Luckily I can get to the area pretty easily through the ski locker door.

I'm looking for some comment on my layup. I'm planning to replace like with like. Do I need to start with a layer of CSM between the old glass and the roving? My options are kinda limited to what I have on hand if I want to get this laid up tomorrow...csm, heavy woven roving, and lightweight cloth. I intend to lay a couple layers of roving on the inside as well.

 

[oops!]

Re: Keel damage; what would you do; what will it cost? (with pictures)

ok.....hang on here......

read the first 5 pages of my thread..click the link in my sig..it has all you need to know......more in a sec.....