Johnson 112 SPL running at 17 volts

StriperChaser

Petty Officer 3rd Class
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Sep 29, 2001
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79
Had problems starting the motor in the fall and the dealer replaced the wiring harness due to a short. They never determined what caused the short or where it was since they could not pull out the old harness. After replacing the wiring harness and getting the motor started, they found the voltage regulator was bad and replaced it, thinking it may have caused the harness problem. Last time out on the boat, at full throttle, my voltage gauge showed 17 volts. Any ideas as to what would cause this ? I have (2) trolling motor batteries linked through a Perko switch to a small cranking battery. Everything runs off 12 volts. All the accessories, lights, bilge, horn are connected to the small cranking battery. All depthfinders, VHF,GPS are connected to the trolling motor batteries. I have a common ground between all batteries. Could this battery set up be causing the problem ? It has been set up like this for years without a problem up until the wiring harness deal. Isolating the cranking battery while at full throttle did not change the voltage. After using the trolling motor and draining the batteries down, all seemed to be ok. On the way back to the ramp it charged at 13 volts. Could the combined amps of the batteries at full charge cause this problem ? Is this a problem to be concerned about ? My depth finder alerted me to the over voltage problem. Sorry for the long message. Thanks in advance for any help.
 

Trent

Captain
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Nov 17, 2001
Messages
3,333
Re: Johnson 112 SPL running at 17 volts

I would verify that it has a regulator and rectifier combination. It sounds to me it just has a rectifier and what its doing is normal for what you describe. My boat does the same thing. When the batteries are fully charged I have to run with somthing switched on to pull some voltage from the battery. When you are returning from fishing you have low or lower batteries and this reduces the voltage until batteries are fully charged.<br /><br />PS. They make a upgrade kit to convert to a regulator/rectifier combination.
 

Trent

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Re: Johnson 112 SPL running at 17 volts

Hey Schematic one question?<br /><br />Why are you putting AC voltage back in the 12 DC battery?? Or am I missing somthing??
 

StriperChaser

Petty Officer 3rd Class
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Re: Johnson 112 SPL running at 17 volts

Hey Schematic, another question? Could you give me written details of what you are suggesting. I'm not sure I understand your drawing. Thanks.
 

Rex

Chief Petty Officer
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Aug 12, 2001
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Re: Johnson 112 SPL running at 17 volts

THE RECTIFIRR TAKES AC AND CHANGRS<br />IT TO D.C.<br />I WOULD NOT THINK TWICE ABOUT IT.<br />GOOD LUCK.
 

Trent

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3,333
Re: Johnson 112 SPL running at 17 volts

Schematic..I understand full and half wave.<br /><br />But I must be looking at your first diagram wrong.??? <br />The diode that your showing only lets "electricity" go one way. "correct" If so im thinking the AC voltage is flowing thru the diode to the battery?? Because its a "blocking" diode the DC voltage cannot "backflow" into the AC?? Is this not correct? <br /><br />Do you see what Im saying..What have I forgot?? Somthing I guess??
 

Trent

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Nov 17, 2001
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Re: Johnson 112 SPL running at 17 volts

OPPPSssssssss with that last post..I understand what you are saying..I knew I was thinking or looking at it wrong..sorry
 

mbb

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Apr 20, 2001
Messages
176
Re: Johnson 112 SPL running at 17 volts

I really dont think its a problem. I checked the current into a fully charged cranking battery from my charger full charge in manual mode. The charger output was 15.6 V and the current was 1.8 amps. This is only slightly more than trickle. Extrapolating using another datapoint, I came to the conclusion that at 17V the current into charged battery would be around 3 amps or so. This doesnt bother me too much.<br /><br />Another way to limit the voltage would be to use diodes in series. Each diode causes a 0.6<br />V voltage drop to forward bias it(cause current to flow) so 2 diodes would knock 17V down to 15.8. Just be sure that they are rated for the power.
 

clanton

Rear Admiral
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Jul 9, 2001
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4,876
Re: Johnson 112 SPL running at 17 volts

You did not indicate year or model of engine, the 1996 112 extry long shaft (25 inch) motor has water cooled regulator. The long shaft (20 inch) motor only has a rectify.
 

StriperChaser

Petty Officer 3rd Class
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Messages
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Re: Johnson 112 SPL running at 17 volts

Clanton,<br />It is a 1996 112 SPL 20" shaft. The dealer said they had found the tachometer not working after they got it started. They said it led them to check the the voltage regulator which was bad and replaced it. You are saying that motor only has a rectifier. Is it possible they actually replaced a rectifier and not a regulator.
 

mbb

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Apr 20, 2001
Messages
176
Re: Johnson 112 SPL running at 17 volts

Hey schematic, happy new yr back at you. Bear with me here, been about 15 yrs since my EE courses, and they didnt cover batteries and coils. What Ive learned additionally I learned thru necessity building peak chargers to charge nicads. But something doesnt still seem right to me. No offense intended to you, Ive read alot of your posts and appreciate what you contribute to this forum. If Im way offbase Im sure youll let me know. <br /><br />What I proposed above was really aimed at limiting voltage to a device from the battery, not from the coil. Once I think about it, I dont think it would do anything to the voltage at the battery terminals. I think it would increase the voltage on the coil side of the diode. <br /><br />To go back to first principles, a current is caused to flow in the stator when the flywheel magnet passes by the coil. The energy used up from the motor is related to the charge created plus eddy current losses which are dissipated as heat from the coil. As long as the coil is present, the same charge per revolution will be created (work or power). The current that flows as the coil discharges and the voltage developed depends on what the rest of the circuit is. Because what you suggest above is still a complete circuit, the same work will be done, and the same power lost from the motor, regardless of whether or not you rectify any or all of the current. All the work done that doesnt end up as charge in the battery is dissipated from the system as heat. Now you could switch the circuit open, in which case it would not draw power from the motor, or generate any heat, but it would not generate any charging current either.<br /><br />I think if you really wanted to half rectify the AC from the stator you need another diode in the ground side. Your diagram doesnt show the neg. (grounded) terminal from the diode bridge. But even if you did this, the same work is being put into the system by the motor, seems to me what would happen is that the coil would only be able to discharge 1/2 as often. Remembering that our power created is constant, if we reduce the time the curent flows, then the current must increase during the time it does flow. To put a higher current rate into the battery will create a higher peak voltage at the terminals, even though the RMS value you measure would be same. The higher voltage and current peaks would be in the direction of shorter stator life, not longer.<br /><br />By my own observations, my motor only makes 17 at full throttle, which motors are not designed to be run at for very long (10% of the time or something like that I recall reading). Since I run mostly at 80% for long durations, the problem is somewhat less severe, but still were talking only about 1-1.5 hrs at a time max.(for me personally), before stopping to fish, or trolling at low rpms that generate lower current flow and terminal voltage. No doubt its not good for the batteries, but I havent had any real problems. I normally replace batteries about every 2 yrs. My problems are usually from letting them go dead when not used for several months due to one reason or another. <br /><br />OK, let me have it.
 

clanton

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Re: Johnson 112 SPL running at 17 volts

Is there going to be a test later?<br />You should move this over to electronic 101,keep it going and I might learm something<br /><br /> Clanton
 

StriperChaser

Petty Officer 3rd Class
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Sep 29, 2001
Messages
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Re: Johnson 112 SPL running at 17 volts

You guys lost me somewhere at the start of all this. I did find and rechecked my last repair invoice. It said they replaced the voltage regulator / rectifier. In laymens terms, should I be concerned with it running 17 volts at WOT ? Will it burn my wiring harness again ?
 

petryshyn

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Oct 3, 2001
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2,851
Re: Johnson 112 SPL running at 17 volts

Clanton, don't you know you should never believe anything you read on the internet...
lol.gif
 
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