j200 wont start

[astropluto]

Engine wont start. Its a 95 johnson 200. I'll start at the begining. It used to run great, now not at all. It used to start when I squeesed primer ball 3 times, then pushed the key down and turned it. Started every time. 2 weeks ago it was hard to start, but I got it started. 10 minutes later while still going slow to get to the bay, the motor just stopped.
Now for the fun part.
I pumped up the primer ball still wont start. After several tries I noticed unmixed oil coming out of the exhuast ports and no gas smell. I changed the fuel water separator still no gas. I checked that fuel was getting to the VRO which it was. There was only oil after the VRO. Changed VRO and pulse limiter. With the help of a friend we got her started but, we had to pump the primer ball wile getting it started. I figured air in the fuel lines because I had it all apart and maybe the primer ball is shot. We went out for 30 minute high speed run. It ran great. So I would have thought.
I changed the primer ball and sparkplugs just because it was the right thing to do. The next time I went to go out fishing it wont start again.
I found a collapsed fuel line. So I changed all of the fuel lines. Then I found that my Fuel water separator was plumbed backwards. Then I checked and cleaned the pickup in the fuel tank. Checked and cleaned the oil lines and tank. I have spark.
When trying to start I have to crank for longer than I want before she lights off. It will only run for 5 or 10 seconds and then just shuts off. I have drained the carbs, i get brown fuel out of them, not golden, not blue but brown. Now when I get it to lite off the overtemp warning horn goes off. It's not overheated, because it doesnt run.
Any thoughts would be great, Thanks

 

[JB]

Re: j200 wont start

Go to the FAQ forum, pluto.

"Outboard won't start" should get you on the right track.

 

[astropluto]

Re: j200 wont start

Thanks, Starter is good, turns over at 700rpm and volts are good. Last thing to look at is the flywheel keyway.

 

[astropluto]

Re: j200 wont start

OK, here's an update.
I had to take off the flywheel to check the woodruff key.
It doesn't look like it sheared but, the inside of the flywheel does look like it was spinning on the crankshaft.
How far is the keyway supposed to stick out of the crankshaft, mine couldn't have been more than a 1/16 and only at the top, bottom was flush of course.
Magnets are good and nothing else seemed to be broken.

 

[Dhadley]

Re: j200 wont start

The key is OK. It's only there to make the alignment. The interference fit between the tapered shaft and taper inside the flywheel are what holds it.

Are you saying the inside of the tapered part of the flywheel has been damaged? The part that rides on the crank? Or are you talking about the metal ring outside of the center hub?

If that center hub magnet is loose, do not try to run the motor. That's what controls the timing.

 

[astropluto]

Re: j200 wont start

The tapered part of the flywheel appears damaged. As though the flywheel was spinning on it. The crank shaft looks good though.
The center magnet isn't loose.

 

[astropluto]

Re: j200 wont start

I finished up the trouble shoot FAQ everything seems to check out.
I got a new key anyway. While I had it apart i went through and checked out everything under there.
I also cleaned every electrical contact I could find. They are actually pretty clean.
I got the motor to run for about 3 minutes before it died again. Just before it died the water pressure from the tell tail increased tremendously. I tried restarting and now I back to 10-20 seconds before it croaks again.
I do have 2 things to add to this adventure (3weeks).
I just got this thing in May. I decided to put new spark plugs in it. I brought champion QL78YC. The motor wouldn't start so I put the old ones back in it and it ran good. Thinking the parts guy gave me the wrong ones I took out and old one and off to my local NAPA. The plugs in the boat are QL77JC4. I also noticed that the primer was in the manual setting, it does work manually Not real sure if the electric side works yet. I just want to get it running first.
I'm stumped, I must have missed something, anythoughts would be great.
Thanks

 

[Silvertip]

Re: j200 wont start

You've done everything except the obvious. Fuel Pump check. You squeeze the primer bulb and it starts. Runs the fuel out of the carbs and quits because the fuel pump is not filling the carbs. What do the plugs look like when it won't start. Dry or wet. Dry = no fuel. Wet = no spark.

 

[astropluto]

Re: j200 wont start

Your right I didn't bother to check out my new fuel pump. I figured it ran once with it, it must be good.
I didn't get to pull the plugs out last night after I was done, between the darkness, skeeters and just plain had it I retired for the night.
When it did run for that little bit it smoked alot, the skeeters did wait until the fog was gone though, smart little guys.
Here's a dumb question to add, but thats what I'm down to. The primer bulb, the arrow is supposed to be pointing towards the motor right? question 2, when sqeezing the primer bulb how long should it take to refill so I can sqeeze it again, I counted to 8 seconds for mine.
Thanks again

 

[fishweed]

Re: j200 wont start

It sounds like your headed in the right direction with a fuel delivery problem.
Yes, the arrow should point in the direction of fuel flow.
The bulb on my J200 takes about half a second to refill when I squeeze it.

 

[astropluto]

Re: j200 wont start

Ive been hunting around for some insight (lord knows I'm not goin fishing). It looks like I'm going in the fuel tank. I guess back flowing fuel doesn't clean it out real well. My problem is the fuel pickup tube isn't part of the fuel level sender. It is a welded fitting and I presume a hard line going straight to the bottom. I can't see a big enough access hole anywhere.
Arg

 

[Cricket Too]

Re: j200 wont start

Astro.....I'm trying to follow, but getting a little confused here.

What plugs did you end up getting and what are you running in it right now?

You say the primer is in the Manual setting, so it's being primed when you start it up. Are you switching the primer lever back once it starts up? That lever being in manual will kill it in no time after it starts.

 

[astropluto]

Re: j200 wont start

I have nice new QL77JC4's in it now.
Primer thing: It was running good with it turned 1/3 into the manual mode. I didn't know which way the little red handle went, the service manual doesn't say which way or how it goes. It was in another thread I figured it out. Now I'm unsure of the selonoid is working or not, but it does work manually. I turn the primer off just before I crank it over, Ive had best results that way so far.

 

[astropluto]

Re: j200 wont start

No Joy, Here's an update. I took out the antisiphone valve, I flowed 2 and a half gallons into the tank through the pickup, there was no resistance. At least i got to use my old primer ball for something. Anyway that didn't help.
I hook up ol johnny 200 to an external fuel tank (again). I checked the pulse line to the vro and I get plenty of air through that. I drained my orange gas out of all 6 carbs. I got the motor to run for 15 to 30 second intervals about 6 or 7 times. The new fuel from the external tank wound up in my float bowls with a nice tinge of blue. Not as blue as premix. i drained them again just to verify the vro was pumping fuel and mixing, it is. It still only ran for 15 to 30 seconds at a time. I even tried spraying premix staight into the carbs, no change. I looked at the plugs they were somewhat dry. If I think of anything else I'll add it later, I am mentally done.
Any thoughts would be cool.

 

[andy6374]

Re: j200 wont start

Have you tried choking the engine too keep it running. If choking it every now and again saves it, then your carbs are probably dirty and need to be cleaned.

 

[astropluto]

Re: j200 wont start

I tried cycling the primer to keep it running and still no joy.

 

[astropluto]

Re: j200 wont start

Yet another day trying to get this thing to run.
Did a compression test again, 1=90, 2=95, 3=90, 4=95, 5=75, 6=85.
I can get it to start by using full throttle and getting the high speed jets to open up. I can kepp that going for about 30 to 40 seconds befor it dies.
I tried choking the carbs with my hand, I have good suction and was able to make sure fuel flows from the carbs, it is. When checking the plugs after it dies they are dry, but I also have fuel in my float bowls.
I am getting 11 volts at the starter while turning it over.
Please help.

 

[astropluto]

Re: j200 wont start

I just tryied decarbing it with seafoam.
I got it to hang on just a little longer this time. I'm still using the throttle to open the highspeed jets to get it to start and run.
I checked the plugs after it died, they were dry.
I tried starting it directly after (no priming).
It started same as with priming, high speed jets.
Could it be possible that 6 carbs can plug up all at the same time? and only the idle and low speed circuits?
There has to be one thing common to all.
The fuel pump pumps a steady streem when turning over the engine.
People are stating to drop flowers off at my house and threatning to donate it to the nj Volunteer reef Foundation.

 

[astropluto]

Re: j200 wont start

I'm glad I like talking to myself.

 

[astropluto]

Re: j200 wont start

Tonight I disconnected the fuel pump from the carbs. I don't have a pressure gauge but, when I turn the eng over (700rpm) I get a pulsating fuel flow. Is this good or no good?
Also with the spark plugs disconnected I opened the throttle plates and I did not see fuel flowing from the idle or midrange jets that are located behind the throttle plates. Is this OK or not OK.
I would hate to have another bad VRO pump, this one is new.
I was still able to startit up using the high speed jets, fuel comes out of them, But of corse it soon dies just like it is sarved for fuel. and the float bowls have fuel in them.
I just hope someone has an idea.
Thanks:'(