Iraq, Ruby Ridge, Waco.....

SoulWinner

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Apr 16, 2002
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Is it me or is it odd that we have to be nice to Iraqi enemy combatants, but it's fine to shoot an innocent mother while she's holding her baby, burn dozens of innocnet women and children, kick in doors and point a loaded H&K MPK at a five year old Cuban refugees head at 3:00AM? Why is it that the left can spout off about these picutres with impunity and no-one calls them on thier Jim Jonesian handeling of Waco or Ruby Ridge? This is not a troll, but a voice crying in the wilderness that we need to wake up.
 

Carphunter

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Aug 11, 2002
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Re: Iraq, Ruby Ridge, Waco.....

Those folks in Waco were Whacko if you ask me.<br /><br />If they ain't woke up by now, they probably won't. :( <br /><br />Keep praying Soulwinner, and so will I. :)
 

mellowyellow

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Re: Iraq, Ruby Ridge, Waco.....

heavily armed wacko's holed up in a house and<br />bound/jailed prisioners are 2 diff. things SW.<br />the second you already have complete control and<br />dominance over. bad analogy IMHO.
 

Carphunter

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Re: Iraq, Ruby Ridge, Waco.....

Yeah Mellow, thats what I was tryin to say.
 

mellowyellow

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Re: Iraq, Ruby Ridge, Waco.....

amen brother carp :p <br />both are similar in that they each required a certain<br />amount of stupidity to get to their final outcomes...
 

boatingfool

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Nov 30, 2002
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Re: Iraq, Ruby Ridge, Waco.....

What those MPs did was not the right thing to do but give me a break!!!!!<br /><br />To use the word atocities or even torture to describe what happened to these poor detainees, which by the way would be killing our troops if they were not in prison, is completely off the mark and way out of line.<br /><br />Ruby Ridge,<br />Governments fault.<br /><br />Waco,<br />Their own fault not the governments and I am a republican. The government didnt kill those innoccent woman and Children the people running "the compound" did. Their actions is what led to their deaths.<br /><br />The cuban kid,<br />Governments fault 100%
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
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Re: Iraq, Ruby Ridge, Waco.....

C'mon, SW! You are buying into lies cooked up by anti-Fed radicals..<br /><br />The woman at Ruby Ridge moved into a line of fire without the sniper's notice. It was an accident.<br /><br />Those idiots at Waco burned themselves up.<br /><br />Elian Gonzales was being kept in violation of a court order. Nobody pointed a gun at him, though video makes it appear that way due to 2 dimensional graphics. The officers were armed because of a threat of violence by the people who had him.<br /><br />Now, if you'd like to complain about atrocities, try the "battle" of the Oachita (that's not the correct spelling for that river, but the #$%^& software wont print the correct one.), when LTC George Custer and the 7th Calvary attacked a Cheyenne village of peaceful old men, women and children and slew hundreds before they mutilated the bodies.<br /><br />The Cheyenne, Arapaho and Lakota didn't even the score at the Little Big Horn, but they got a start on it.
 

mellowyellow

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Re: Iraq, Ruby Ridge, Waco.....

it ain't torture or mis-treatment, it stupidity!<br />it's not bad nuff these few US idiots took pics,<br />they were also stupid nuff to get caught with them? :rolleyes: <br />we have a few twisted people here who even made<br />a few group sex videos where dog leash girl posed<br />as an Iraqi woman and was "tortured" by a few men.<br />everyone wants to blame lack of training, Rummy,<br />GW, CIA, ...etc.<br />what ever happened to personal responsibility in this country???????
 

gaugeguy

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Jun 4, 2003
Messages
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Re: Iraq, Ruby Ridge, Waco.....

Crap rolls downhill, unfortunately E1-E5 are at the bottom of the hill. :(
 

Dave Abrahamson

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May 8, 2003
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Re: Iraq, Ruby Ridge, Waco.....

I heard that the Geneva convention specifically addresses POW treatment with the "exception of terrorists". True??
 

KennyKenCan

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Aug 26, 2002
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Re: Iraq, Ruby Ridge, Waco.....

Humilitation of an individual is NOT an atrocity!!<br /><br />Beheading a civilian IS!!<br /><br />Dragging 4 bodies through the street and then hanging them from a bridge IS!!<br /><br />Breaking the back and legs, and then raping Jessica Lynch IS!!<br /><br />Killing your own countrymen IS!!<br /><br />Use of WMD IS!!<br /><br />Wake up people!<br /><br />Look at the facts, not Ted Kennedy's propoganda!!<br /><br />And if humiliation is an atrocity, then we need to arrest every comedian in the world, and charge them with atrocities against humanity!!<br /><br />Get real people!
 

18rabbit

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Nov 14, 2003
Messages
3,202
Re: Iraq, Ruby Ridge, Waco.....

Ruby Ridge FACTS*:<br /><br />-Randy Weaver’s wife, Vicki, was shot in the back while hold their baby to her breasts. The assassin’s bullet passed through both their bodies, killing both. Federal courts have ruled that it was an assassination but the assassin, an FBI agent, was never put on trial.<br /><br />At the time of the shooting, the FBI has issued a standing order for the snipers to “take out” anyone they could. It was not an accidental shooting. It is thought this is the reason Lon Horiuchi, the FBI sniper, was never tried…he fired under order.<br /><br />-Weaver’s son was shot and killed in the woods. Federal agents fired upon him, too, but he was able to return fire before eventually being killed.<br /><br />-Although Randy weaver did not violate any laws, he was convicted of “failure to appear” at a prior court hearing for a criminal complaint that was found to have been fraudulent filed by the feds.<br /><br />Waco FACTS*:<br /><br />-Tanks collapsed the under ground bunker crushing most of the women and children to death. They were huddled there in a room full of teargas without masks or other devices to help them breathe.<br /><br />-The unarmed adults that tried to flee were machine gunned as they exited the back of the compound. There are FLIR images of this but the gov’t now blocks any professional evaluation of the tapes.**<br /><br />-When the federal agents first started the shooting, David Koresh dialed 9-1-1 and asked for help. After that, the Branch Davidians started shooting back.<br /><br />-Two unarmed Davidians that didn’t know what was happening were walking from the town to their compound. They checked in with and were allowed to pass the FBI/ATF roadblock quite some distance from the compound. They never made it. One was found in a field, the other’s body lay draped over a fence for 3 days. Both were shot in the back.<br /><br />-Four federal agents were killed, the Davidians killed two and other federal agents killed two.<br /><br /> -There never was any child abuse happening at the Davidian compound. There never were any illegal firearms in the position of the Branch Davidians at any time.<br /><br />-If you follow the trail of hatred that was directed toward the Koresh and his group of weirdoes, it ends with a fraudulent complaint and the Jewish Anti Defamation League (ADL).<br /><br />Anyone that wants to take the time too look into Waco will find overwhelming documentation that the Branch Davidians were innocent victims of on over zealous Attorney General, Janet Reno. I have my own opinion as to why but it is politically incorrect to have. There is a common, but not direct, link between the ADL and Reno’s sexual orientation.<br /><br />The Elian Gonzalez debacle is more subjective and I believe it was not handled as well as it could have been.<br /><br />OKC Bombing:<br /><br />-Good God, where do we even start with this one??? There are over 50 videotapes (ATM machines, parking lot surveillance cameras, etc) that show the Ryder truck moving through downtown OKC. The FBI will not allow anyone to see them. Some businesses viewed their tape prior to handing them over to the FBI. What they claim is on those tapes dramatically contrasts with the government’s version of what happened.<br /><br />The government has continued to refuse to answer specific questions about all the above (except the Gonzales issue).<br /><br />*Note: FACTS indicates these statements are the product of data contained in government documents, exept **.<br /><br />**Note: A company that is under government contract to provide expert evaluation of such images did initial review of the forward-looking infrared images. The company, without knowing who the ‘players’ were in the video, identified people coming out of the building and being shot by other people strategically stationed outside. The muzzle flashes are clearly visible on the tape. Almost immediately after making their statement, the company issued another written statement indicating they would no long evaluate or comment on the FLIR images because of concern they would lose their government contracts.<br /><br />SoulWinner, you are absolutely dead on the money about the runaway abuse of power. However, you are not a “voice crying in the wilderness”, you are a series of electrical impulses creating text on the internet. :) <br /><br />"It's dangerous to be right when the government is wrong." Voltaire
 

gaugeguy

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Re: Iraq, Ruby Ridge, Waco.....

So it is ok to draw a bead and fire on an innocent civilian if you are under orders, but you can't put underwear on a terrorists head if you are under orders to do so :confused:
 

18rabbit

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Re: Iraq, Ruby Ridge, Waco.....

I think the idea is that both are wrong, though also unrelated.<br /><br />I also think the overall lowering into a lack of moral behavior is the product of absent-parent up bringing. Where it used to be just dad that went to work, now it is dad AND mom that need to work to make ends meet and little Johnny is left to video games, MTV and watched/influenced by a tattooed, pierced, demoralized 14-year old babysitter on birth control with a cell phone. (Ok, maybe I exaggerated a little to make a point. :) )<br /><br />If asked (or even order) to do what I saw in those pictures, I don’t think I could have done it. I would like to know the backgrounds of the grunts involved in the Iraqi prison debacle, what allowed them to make the decision to do what they did. Bare in mind most (all?) of the people in those photos had no intelligence value and where supposed to have been released months prior but the procedure to do so was yet to be defined. They weren’t even supposed to be there.
 

Carphunter

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Re: Iraq, Ruby Ridge, Waco.....

Sounds as though someone is a little paranoid to me.<br /><br />Its always an "out" to say the Government is covering things up.<br /><br />18rabbit, you forgot to add Roswell to your list. We all know THAT their covering up the fact that they caught E.T. :rolleyes:
 

SpinnerBait_Nut

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
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Re: Iraq, Ruby Ridge, Waco.....

Hey Carpy, they were and still are there.<br />Don't let anyone fool you into thinking they are not.<br /><br />I have it on the highest authority. ;) :cool:
 

Carphunter

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Aug 11, 2002
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Re: Iraq, Ruby Ridge, Waco.....

While some of you seem preoccupied with the Iraqi detainee "abuse", those idiots over there are trying to explode WMD's on our troops!<br /><br />Get you d@mn priorties straight.<br /><br />Those idiotic detainee's aren't being detained for no reason. <br /><br />Poor, poor detainee's, gimme a break! :mad:
 

Carphunter

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Re: Iraq, Ruby Ridge, Waco.....

I know SBN, I didn't want anyone finding your little buddies. ;) <br /><br />Had to play along.
 

kenimpzoom

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Jul 13, 2002
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4,807
Re: Iraq, Ruby Ridge, Waco.....

18 rabbit you forgot one important fact about all three cases (Waco, Ruby Ridge, Gonzalez). <br /><br />Fact - Had all people calmly left the building with their hands up, there would have been no deaths. Tons of cameras outside, nothing to worry about cept your day in court.<br /><br />These people never seemed to learn there is a time to fight, and a time to surrender.<br /><br />Ken
 
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