installing a remote oil filter set up, got a question....

Lou C

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OK I bought this remote oil filter set up from Michigan Motorz that will work on my 4.3 with Volvo style exhaust. They sent a roll of teflon tape to seal the threads of the connections but I have read not to use teflon tape on oil or gas threads. So then what to use if anything? Permatex thread sealant, or Permatex Aviation? Remote oil filter mount for 4.3 V6.jpg
 

dingbat

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They sent a roll of teflon tape to seal the threads of the connections but I have read not to use teflon tape on oil or gas threads.
It has nothing to do with compatibility. It's all about the skills of the individual applying the tape.

Just yesterday changed the "tape" on the remote oil drain while replacing the sump gasket and shaft seal on the Exmark from 10 years ago
 

Scott06

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OK I bought this remote oil filter set up from Michigan Motorz that will work on my 4.3 with Volvo style exhaust. They sent a roll of teflon tape to seal the threads of the connections but I have read not to use teflon tape on oil or gas threads. So then what to use if anything? Permatex thread sealant, or Permatex Aviation? View attachment 391484
Its only to keep excess tape out of the fuel or oil system keep them off the end of the fitting you are fine or use teflon paste. I suspect you know not to use them on the flare fittings shown. Assume there are some NPT threads in the system? On a tapered thread the thread makes the seal the paste/dope is just to lube it so you can get it tight. So on NOT my preference is to use dope or if you have perfect seal /permatex#3 use that , also seems to prevent corrosion and make them come apart easy

Be inetersted to hear how you like that setup. I wish I had gotten one when I put my MM engine in the boat. I think back then it was like a $180 adder to an engine package.
 

Lou C

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Its only to keep excess tape out of the fuel or oil system keep them off the end of the fitting you are fine or use teflon paste. I suspect you know not to use them on the flare fittings shown. Assume there are some NPT threads in the system? On a tapered thread the thread makes the seal the paste/dope is just to lube it so you can get it tight. So on NOT my preference is to use dope or if you have perfect seal /permatex#3 use that , also seems to prevent corrosion and make them come apart easy

Be inetersted to hear how you like that setup. I wish I had gotten one when I put my MM engine in the boat. I think back then it was like a $180 adder to an engine package.
Yep there are fittings that thread into the mount for the filter & the block mount; those are the ones that get the sealer, the threads on the fittings for the hoses don’t get anything.
I like the idea of this but have mixed feelings about it. On the one hand not having to remove half of the rear seat & wood supports just to do an oil change is great. On the other hand there are a lot more places for these things to leak oil. I know a standard oil filter having changed probably hundreds over 50+ years is pretty much fool proof. Also getting up close & personal with the engine once a year you might see problems developing that you would miss otherwise. I’m going to try to install it & if it doesn’t leak & the filter gets warm like it should I’ll go with it; if not then might go back to the regular filter….
 

Scott06

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Yep there are fittings that thread into the mount for the filter & the block mount; those are the ones that get the sealer, the threads on the fittings for the hoses don’t get anything.
I like the idea of this but have mixed feelings about it. On the one hand not having to remove half of the rear seat & wood supports just to do an oil change is great. On the other hand there are a lot more places for these things to leak oil. I know a standard oil filter having changed probably hundreds over 50+ years is pretty much fool proof. Also getting up close & personal with the engine once a year you might see problems developing that you would miss otherwise. I’m going to try to install it & if it doesn’t leak & the filter gets warm like it should I’ll go with it; if not then might go back to the regular filter….
That one has swaged hoses essentially same material as hydraulic hoses vs some of the cheap automotive ones with hose clamps... Would think the hoses are good for 10-15 years would just keep an eye on where you run it and if they are chaffing wrap them so they don't abrade
 

Lou C

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BTW the price of this kit now is about double what you were quoted!
 

Lou C

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I called the guys at Canton Racing who made the mount that goes on the engine, they said you can use either as long as you use it properly.
BUT, still worried about the bypass issue. The standard one is an 11 lb bypass, I have heard from a few sources (but Michigan Motorz doesn't agree with this) that you have to change that for a 30 lb unit. Or else it will go into bypass with unfiltered oil going thru the engine. So changed my mind again, I will just stick with the standard filter till I repower the boat.
 

Scott Danforth

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I would change the bypass to a 30 psi unit. takes about 2 minutes to swap the bypass valve. 5 if you have a beer first.
 

Scott06

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I called the guys at Canton Racing who made the mount that goes on the engine, they said you can use either as long as you use it properly.
BUT, still worried about the bypass issue. The standard one is an 11 lb bypass, I have heard from a few sources (but Michigan Motorz doesn't agree with this) that you have to change that for a 30 lb unit. Or else it will go into bypass with unfiltered oil going thru the engine. So changed my mind again, I will just stick with the standard filter till I repower the boat.
I think we had a thread on this....

What bypass are VP and Merc using in their OEM setup? if there was an issue with that someone would know, would also think MM would know as well.
 

Lou C

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I asked MM when I ordered the kit
they said they install lots of these on their turn key engines and you don't need to change the bypass. However, you won't know until you install it and run it till the engine warms up and see if the filter gets warm indicating that oil is flowing through it. Just for a data point I ran my engine on the water hose for a half hr at 1500 rpm and the regular filter got up to about 120-130*F. However not sure what it would do under load at 4000 rpm.
 

flashback

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Probably would come into play if the filter were mounted 10 feet higher than the engine. That bit of sarcasm is not meant to be hateful. I think your okay without swapping the valve, that said you'd be fine to swap it because you change your filter regularly..
 

Kosmofreeze

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Wait ... what? I thought the by-pass valve was integral to the oil filter. Is this not the case for typical marine applications? Anybody know here the by-pass valve on a VP 5.7Gxi? I've been thinking of installing an oil filter remote mount as my current/factory installation requires me (a big guy) to remove the alternator to access the oil filter.
1699718421734.png
 

Scott Danforth

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Wait ... what? I thought the by-pass valve was integral to the oil filter. Is this not the case for typical marine applications? Anybody know here the by-pass valve on a VP 5.7Gxi?
Every engine block on the planet, marine, truck, automotive, etc. has a block mounted bypass valve. the factory GM blocks is 11 psi. when running a remote filter, it is suggested to change the block bypass valve to a 30 psi unit.

for your SBC, its in the filter boss.
 

Lou C

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Some filters have a bypass valve but some don't. Probably the majority of them do. Since the GM small block V8 as always had the oil filter mounting pad with the adapter & the bypass valve staked in it, you could use a filter without a bypass, and it wouldn't cause a problem if the oil filter clogged.
The difference between the V8 and the V6 is the V8 has a removable adapter with the valve staked into it, the V6 has a smaller oil filter mount pad (the filters are smaller in diameter) and the valve is staked right into a hole in the pad, as in the pic I posted.
The issue I had is there is just not enough access to get that valve out and install a 30 psi one. Not with the engine in the boat anyway.
I have other questions:
1) comparing the filters, the Merc OEM and Sierra 4.3 filters are pretty small now, they used to be longer than they are now (probably done to improve access for replacement).
2) the WIX filter Michigan Motorz supplied with the kit is more than 2x the size of the OEM style filter.
so my question is, do different filters have different resistance to oil flow specs, and if so, can that make a difference in the need to replace the 11 psi valve with the 30?
I am wondering if MM is saying that it isn't necessary to replace the valve because the WIX filters they use "might" have less internal resistance to flow than the OEM tiny Merc filters. The sell a LOT of engines with these remote filters set ups and if the oil wasn't getting filtered, you'd think there would be warrantee problems, no? They seem to use the same WIX filter from what I can see looking at their pix of turn key engines on their site.

last thing
even if you had a 30-psi valve in the block adapter or filter pad, if you were using a filter with a standard bypass valve, (and didn't think to look up the specs to find out if it had a bypass) wouldn't it still open at more than 11 psi differential, thereby negating the whole exercise of changing the one on the oil filter mount pad?
In that case it would seem you HAVE to use a filter with no bypass for this to work!
I looked up the specs on the supplied WIX filter, yes it has a bypass, so even if I went through trouble to change the filter mount valve, the one in the filter will still open at more than 11 psi differential.
 

Scott Danforth

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even if you had a 30-psi valve in the block adapter or filter pad, if you were using a filter with a standard bypass valve, (and didn't think to look up the specs to find out if it had a bypass) wouldn't it still open at more than 11 psi differential, thereby negating the whole exercise of changing the one on the oil filter mount pad?
In that case it would seem you HAVE to use a filter with no bypass for this to work!
I looked up the specs on the supplied WIX filter, yes it has a bypass, so even if I went through trouble to change the filter mount valve, the one in the filter will still open at more than 11 psi differential.
you want the oil filter bypass to control if it filters or not. if your remote lines are cold and long, you can run the motor for hours and not have oil flowing to the filter. where if the bypass on the block guarantees oil flow to the filter, then it is up to the filter to bypass or not. this guarantees that even 20F 50W oil will be pumped and pushed to the filter.
 

Lou C

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Makes sense, but unless you know if your filter has a bypass or not, in the end you still may not have oil going thru the filter.
I'm wondering if you can look up oil filter flow specs, would that shed any light on this question?
Are they all the same, or are there differences?
Does the length of the hoses make a difference (probably)?

PS I looked up the WIX filter for the standard 4.3 mount (51036), it comes in a couple of varieties
both have
no bypass
7-9 GPM
21 micron rating
325 psi burst rating
difference between the 2 is one has enhanced cellulose vs synthetic media.
 
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Lou C

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Did some more research to see how Merc packages their remote oil filter kits and the ones I could find, do not appear to add a different bypass valve, or adapter for the V8s
Then looked at how Crusader does theirs, the ones with no oil cooler are like Merc's no different bypass valve, however the ones with both the remote filter and an oil cooler, do exchange the original for a 20 psi unit. Which makes sense because you'd expect the cooler to add extra resistance to flow.
 

Scott Danforth

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makes sense. Crusader (PCM) did a lot of their own engine development including their own induction systems. Merc took the motor from GM and used as-is.
 
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