increasing lake level

[OLDSPUD]

just got home from a weekend at Lake Powell, while there, the lake rose about 3 feet, just about a foot a day. The question arose one night while fishing off the back. "Does the whole lake rise at the same time?" or, does it rise slower at the dam many mile away from where the Colorado river dumps into the lake?

spud

 

[QC]

Re: increasing lake level

Once you are below any river current, the lake is all the same level. It is hard to imagine for me as well, but I believe that to be true.

 

[OLDSPUD]

Re: increasing lake level

thanks QC, I think that would fall under the bathtub theory. Lake Powell is probably 150 miles long as it winds through the canyons. The tidal wave theory, we argued wouldn't apply because the incoming water, although at a very fast rate, I guess pushes the water forward, therefore filling all at the same time. Still hard to accept that the dam level is the same as the upper bays.

spud

 

[OLDSPUD]

Re: increasing lake level

I just check the Powell website, Saturday the inflow was 94,309cfs, the outflow at the dam was 22,004cfs, and the lake rose 1.06 feet, still pretty weird to think the level was the same across the whole lake.

spud

 

[QC]

Re: increasing lake level

I just check the Powell website, Saturday the inflow was 94,309cfs, the outflow at the dam was 22,004cfs, and the lake rose 1.06 feet, still pretty weird to think the level was the same across the whole lake.

I know Powell pretty well and have seen everything from Wahweap to Bullfrog. Hard to imagine it flat the whole way, but the fact is that if it wasn't there'd be current from higher to lower. Has to be.

 

[Bondo]

Re: increasing lake level

I know Powell pretty well and have seen everything from Wahweap to Bullfrog. Hard to imagine it flat the whole way, but the fact is that if it wasn't there'd be current from higher to lower. Has to be.

Ayuh,.... You'd Think so, but I'm doubtin' it...

Lake Ontario don't have tides, but my water frontage varies by 1/2', several times a day...
Some days, a few Feet...

Weather, 'n Wind create the bathtub effect...
Southwest wind stacks the water up in the Northeast, my corner...
When it stacks up to high, it flows back to Buffalo...

 

[QC]

Re: increasing lake level

Weather, 'n Wind create the bathtub effect...

I believe that, but I guess I am imagining with no wind. If there is no wind, doesn't it have to be flat?

 

[jimbo_jwc]

Re: increasing lake level

Watched Nippising drop and raise 1 1/2 ft with wind

 

[Bondo]

Re: increasing lake level

I believe that, but I guess I am imagining with no wind. If there is no wind, doesn't it have to be flat?

Ayuh,... Water is dynamic, 'n never still...

Only still waters are Level.....

'n why is yer boat always climbin' a Hill....

 

[QC]

Re: increasing lake level

OK, I am thinking conceptually, and almost every night this place goes dead calm, so think of it like that. 100 miles between the end of current and the dam. I'm sticking with flat when conditions are right.

BTW, if you ever think about a destination boating place, say for a rental houseboat or something like that. Powell is flippin' amazing. Bucket list kind of thing.

 

[Bondo]

Re: increasing lake level

BTW, if you ever think about a destination boating place, say for a rental houseboat or something like that. Powell is flippin' amazing. Bucket list kind of thing.

Ayuh,... I read Hotboat magazine for Years, before I met the internet....

It's been on the list,...
Shame is, years before,..
I drove right by, Repeatedly, in my 18-wheeler....

 

[jaxnjil]

Re: increasing lake level

OK, I am thinking conceptually, and almost every night this place goes dead calm, so think of it like that. 100 miles between the end of current and the dam. I'm sticking with flat when conditions are right.

BTW, if you ever think about a destination boating place, say for a rental houseboat or something like that. Powell is flippin' amazing. Bucket list kind of thing.

Q C how come when the lake is coming up, the arch on the 310 hits the roof of the slip and when it's going down, the keel drags on the cross brace under??

Q and P docks at bull frog. this pix was from B dock when when we had the 230 there

 

[QC]

Re: increasing lake level

Q C how come when the lake is coming up, the arch on the 310 hits the roof of the slip and when it's going down, the keel drags on the cross brace under?

Interesting, but I am not sure how that relates to the lake itself Seems more likely to point out differences between how the slips and the 310 react to changing levels, but not sure. Some super duper civil engineer knows this stuff. The lake level is stated in Altitude, that would be the same from some point to some point. They don't say where . . .

 

[wifisher]

Re: increasing lake level

The water will rise from the inlet toward the outlet. It is the only way that it can happen. Think about a flash flood when a dam/levy lets go. There is a wave that spreads out and decreases as it travels. The difference in levels while the lake is rising/falling naturally will be too small to realize without some pretty sensitive equipment, but it is there.

Also ask yourself what is the true level of the lake. Remember the shape of the earth. Over 100 miles, if you would shoot a laser from surface to surface of the lake at either end, the center would be about 828 feet higher than either end. (based on a 25k miles circumference)

 

[jaxnjil]

Re: increasing lake level

Interesting, but I am not sure how that relates to the lake itself Seems more likely to point out differences between how the slips and the 310 react to changing levels, but not sure. Some super duper civil engineer knows this stuff. The lake level is stated in Altitude, that would be the same from some point to some point. They don't say where . . .

well it really doesn't apply.

the boat doesn't really do that. although there are some house boat captains that swear the water in the slips go's up and down.

all the docks on powell are floating and the dock level to lake level is the same all the time.
elevation is measured at the dam in a well so as to be accurate and steady wave action.

depending on the flow of the river staying constant, elevation will be close at both ends. in the event of the river going up or down, the elevation can be out for the length of time it take the water to get to or drop at the dam. the wind piling water up on the dam or blowing away can have a more noticeable result over a shorter period of time than the river flow.

 

[OLDSPUD]

Re: increasing lake level

one thing for sure is that Lake Powell is a darn cool place to visit.

 

[QC]

Re: increasing lake level

Yup ^^^^ This has been bugging me since we started talking. wifisher appears to speak from a position of knowledge which beats the heck out of my wild speculative mind.

Again, assuming no wind or wakes or other factors to mess up this theoretical musing. I think it is interesting to think of a Lake fed from an underground spring, perfectly in the middle of a circular lake. Does the lake level rise from the center outward? I am guessing that it depends on the size of the lake vs. the flow coming in etc. If it is just a trickle, but the lake is actually rising, would you ever be able to measure the difference in level at any point on the lake?

Then imagine Powell, it's endless shapes and dimensions would cause underwater currents of "flow" to distribute at very odd points and rates I would think. And yes this seems like a contradiction of my all rises equally original position, but I am willing to imagine alternatives. But again, isn't this all below the surface? Since there is water constantly coming in and going out, I can't imagine an invisible "wave" that's distributing the rising waters on the surface. Help!

Maybe we should move this to non-Boating technical to attract someone that actually knows this stuff. Maybe that's wifisher? Dunno . . .

 

[bruceb58]

Re: increasing lake level

If the inflow is more than the outflow then there is a current and the level would be different on one end than the other due to that. Might be a fraction of an inch bit but it would be different.

 

[rbh]

Re: increasing lake level

How about this.

Its spring time, and there is alot of snow melting high up in the mountains? (flood season)
Coupled with the dams need to control the amout of water that is behind it,
But usually at night there is less demand for power so the people that control the dam choke down the amout of water running through the penstocks so as to raise the water level for the next morning when power usage increases????

 

[QC]

Re: increasing lake level

Yes, yes and yes. But still don't know when it rises and where. I have a flippin' crazy idea. I am going to email the people at the lake who should know this stuff.